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IMP or FG
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Post by
Unclebob
Help plz I just dont know how to go.
Imp or FG (0/41/30). The imp gives a nice extra 5 pct crit to fire. and a speeced imp hits fast and hard round 800-1000 (im not sure but guards hit like 1000-2500 I belive)
But i cant figure out wich one gives more Sp stam+int wise ?
Post by
asakawa
if you've spent 41 points in demo then FG is always the pet you should be using.
as for, should you spend the point on FG or conflag? the answer is also FG.
there are imp builds and there are FG builds. you're using a FG build so the answer is pretty clear.
Post by
Unclebob
Could u put that in nubers I can also take an xtra 2 at 41 points. Does the Fg also do more damage. By it self and as buff to SP ?
NVM found wow wikki and saw that at lvl 70 the stam+int is +100+ in favor of the FG. they dont have nubers at lvl80 for fg but imps are still lower there so ill just be wasting 7pct crit if ill take the Fg. or 5 pct crit and 3pct less fire damage.
Post by
Sweapt
Might i ask why you would put the point into FG and then not bother using the spell? The FG/Ember build is centered around your FG, you use talents that boost its effictiveness. Which in turn will raise your total DPS. Its like asking "should i be using shadow bolt or incinerate with 41/30?". Of course the answer is always SB as im sure everyone will tell you ^^
Post by
LookOut
actually it's incinerate as 41/30 o_O
you've got a handful of talents boosting your fire spells and then you're using shadowbolt? No, out of the question.
If you go deeper into demo and don't take emberstorm by doing so, THEN you use shadowbolt.
Post by
Sweapt
I was being sarcastic. If i was using SB over Inc with 41/30 i would shoot my self in the head so i wouldnt be able to make such retarded comments seriously. The point was he was asking FG over Imp in a felgaurd spec. So SB over Inc in a 41/30 build was meant to follow the same irony/ignorance. I apologise for it not being clear enough as sarcasm, but there is only so much you can do with typed sarcastic comments.
Post by
Unclebob
I wasnt putting any points in FG but i took the +10pct crit trying to enhance the fire dps of me and my imp.
edit
I respecced and found some intresting things first of all the imps stam+int is higher than the FG stam+int. That will teach me to trust wowwiki ^^. Both do around 800 base damge as their sheet says.
Now let me again try to explain with theese builds where my problem lies. I have to say that i like crit much so you well see more of that than spell damage plusses, thats why i took imp SB and backlash over aftermathe and imp immo.
For FG/ember
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#IZbGchkA0ihcLzZE0oVrckV
However after trying i found that it gives 100 less dps. In my case 2200 instead of the next build.
For pure fire
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#IZfG0hkA0ihcxZE0MVrczV
wich gives around 2300 on recount.
rotations CoE/A,Cor ,SB , immo, inc, inc, inc
I think its the 7pct more crit but i could be wrong. Offcourse all glyphs are in place like the xtra fire damage for imp and AP for guard.
Thats for the basics. I am also leaning to decimate for raids since it gives real bad ass damage. If it only is for the last part of the fight.
Post by
358761
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
Look up the spec on the stickies
i don't think we realised at first but this is one of those threads that is best answered in the stickies.
as i said earlier, there are imp specs if you want one, look them up and use them.
crit isn't all that great, demo needs that boost just to stay competitive and you shouldn't bend over backwards to try to get all the crit that's available. read the stickies and trust that the people who put work into them have done their homework regarding which talents are worth more than others.
generally though, it sounds like you want to play deep destro so do that.
...and no, fire specs do not use ISB. leave it to the mages, aff-locks and meta-locks.
Post by
Unclebob
ISB seems valid to me for a 5pct xtra crit for all casters over 26% xtra damage for just 1 spell but that might just be me. It also brings me to a near 40pct crit rate. put some other raid buffs on it and I'll crit 1:2 .
Also this is not an FG/ember build. Its a fire destro build. Im trying to maximize fire output cause I still belive thats the way to go.
Ive gone deep destro and its nice with lots of nice damage. But they moved MC recently wich is ofc a great plus. Also the xtra sp from demonic knowledge is greater using an imp than using a FG. And since I am the main damage dealer and not my pet that is what counts imo. And then u tell me not to take 10pct xtra crit with demonic tactics. and another 5 from my imp.
Im not talking hc mobs here where the fg cleaves his way through cause I rain em down in 2 casts im talking bosses.
Would love to find the sticky where it shows me wrong but the one ontop of this forum only tells me what spells are great and frankly there's just not enough points for all those spells rated 5.
Post by
358761
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
this
is the sticky thread you want to see.
0/40/31
and
0/28/43
are the options that you should look at if you don't want to use a FG but do want to take some demo talents.
both builds fall behind 0/41/30 by quite a way and deep destro tests above all of them currently so i wouldn't actually recommend either.
essentially the problem is that you're focussing on a couple of things, crit talents and demonic knowledge (especially this which really doesn't make any noticeable difference), and giving them far too much importance. the FG's higher damage output and massively increased scalability more than makes up for the difference in crit and this has been endlessly tested and proven.
if you take that on board but still want to use an imp then that's fine but trust us that this stuff has all been well tested and what we say is't just pure conjecture.
if graphs help sell it to you then look at
this
thread on EJ (i like graphs ^_^)
Post by
Unclebob
if graphs help sell it to you then look at
this
thread on EJ (i like graphs ^_^)
Yea me too thanks... And no thanks. I did deep destro and didnt like the long cd on CB also I didnt like the rotation. Hoped to solve it with some heavy crit and xtra fire damage
Ah well back to the drawing board.
Idd still like to see the damage output of an Imp and an Fg to a single target plus their base stats if sombody finds it before me plz link.
Post by
Sweapt
Idd still like to see the damage output of an Imp and an Fg to a single target plus their base stats if sombody finds it before me plz link.
You could justs simply go to a dummy, sick your pet on it and just record the DPS from the pet only with recount or another meter. Then you would no which pet does the highest damage and then not have to create threads asking stuff that can be figured out yourself ^^
Post by
asakawa
assuming T7 gear and a balanced raid group:
DPS: 6642 50.9% Warlock_T7_00_41_30
DPS: 6396 49.1% Warlock_T7_00_40_31
imp: fire_bolt Count=161.1| 1.9sec DPE= 1439|12% DPET= 776 DPR= 8.0 Miss=0.0% Hit=1268 Crit= 1903| 2071|26.9%
FG: cleave Count= 47.3| 6.4sec DPE= 1560| 4% DPET= 945 DPR= 4.7 Miss=0.0% Hit=1669 Dodge=6.5%
felguard_melee Count=191.9| 1.6sec DPE= 1787|17% DPET= 1149 DPR= 0.0 Miss=0.0% Hit=1646 Crit= 3292| 3589|21.0% Glance=1234|23.9% Dodge=6.4%
you see that the FG's melee does more damage than an imp before you even include his cleave.
also the overall DPS shows the FG build doing more damage than the imp build so the imp's MD buff doesn't provide a big enough buff to make 40/31 viable.
again, 'your game, your choice', it's not so far behind as to be a terrible option i just don't want you to be labouring under the misapprehension that using an imp is actually optimal.
Post by
Unclebob
@ sweapt
Ah thank u for ur helpfull answer that makes this forum THE source of information everyone is waiting for. I will immidiatly dump all my glyphs respecc, reglyph and while im at it dual specc. Thanks again for ur clutter free imput.
@ asakawa thx ur google do is greater than mine (or u just know where too look) but im all ready convinced that CB is ,again, the way to go.
Post by
Sweapt
It was a pleasure ^^ You could just get dual spec first and then add the glyphs xD
Will your spec still be including decimation ? Ive found this to be a great alternative to CB and made my transition from Deep destro to FG/Ember a while back very smooth. Although, i did enjoy weeving CB and conflag together in my early 80 days.
Post by
asakawa
well, frankly unclebob, Fyou!
i spent some time running my own simulation to make sure the results were current and directly comparing those 2 specific specs. also you said you didn't like CB so i was trying to give you options.
people like you are why posters like me are reticent to actually spend much time trying to help someone out. next time i won't bother.
Post by
Unclebob
?
And i thanked u for it. I rly much appreciated ur time and effort.
I also seem to recall u say that in the end deep destro bypasses them all. To wich u even convinced me to respecc back. Like or not like the point is to do damage right ?
But hmmm now with ur last remarks...Too bad these informative threads always seem to end up in someone calling the other one thing or the other.
Sigh i'll might even consider not respeccing now and stick to my last specc wich is very much like sweapt suggested in his last post ^^ ah damn the many choises laid before the warlock.
Post by
asakawa
my point is that suggesting all that i did was a quick google search is insulting. if that's all that you think i did then do it yourself next time and save the forum from another thread.
unless i say so i never guess or make up answers, i always research what i say either directly in game or via trusted sources or simulations/spreadsheets.
there may be misunderstanding creeping in via mistranslation since your english isn't great but i don't think that's the case.
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