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Idea on other way to solve gear progression issue apart from giving out EoC in 5 man?
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Post by
223885
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Fingulfin
Gear progression is
FINE
at the moment; IMO if anything should be changed it should just be a small reduction in costs.
But yeah, its nice to know that when my priest alt hits 80 I can get him geared in T8 in a week or so just by grinding heroics!
Post by
TheMediator
There's no problem with the badge solution other than the minority of raiders who don't raid for fun crying because they don't raid for fun, and instead raid because they temporarily get epeen from it. These posts are getting old and dumb, stop posting about it.
Post by
203406
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Post by
187275
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Post by
260787
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheMediator
There's no problem with the badge solution other than the minority of raiders who don't raid for fun crying because they don't raid for fun, and instead raid because they temporarily get epeen from it. These posts are getting old and dumb, stop posting about it.
Im sorry But your ^&*!@niness is getting old -_- You act like you know it all And Im getting so Mfing Tired of it.
Cry abo... no wait you just did. Seriously, there's a reason blizzard is putting this in after saying they thought it was a mistake - they made a huge error with ulduar bosses being on the same reset timer as their hard mode counterparts, so players need to be able to leapfrog the instance to get into the next tier. Next expansion I expect we'll have a more smooth transition, but for now this is how things will be.
Post by
396442
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Post by
260787
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Post by
TheMediator
Seriously, there's a reason blizzard is putting this in after saying they thought it was a mistake - they made a huge error with ulduar bosses being on the same reset timer as their hard mode counterparts, so players need to be able to leapfrog the instance to get into the next tier.
I don't want an argument from you but I want to know what the problem is? You get normal, hard mode and tier (in some cases) loot from the boss if you kill it in hard mode. Where is the error?
The error is that raiders are hitting the hard modes, and people coming out of heroics with a couple of naxx pieces can't get into those hard mode groups, because they have to have done ulduar before, but they can't do ulduar because they don't have the loot for it. Catch 22 at its finest. Because of this oversight, ulduar has to be leap over to allow players to have a proper progression.
Post by
260787
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Post by
TheMediator
Btw, I would appreciate it if you would return to
this thread
and remove the libel from your quote.
Done.
Anyways, the best solution, to me, would be to make ulduar and the hard mode ulduar separate raid instances, but at this point that may be too hard to do on the technical side of things (since some bosses have hard modes and some don't, scaling hard modes etc.), so this is an easier solution. Not fixing this though would be the worst possible option though.
Post by
260787
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Post by
anywherenotes
Well what's bad, is they are worried about nerfing DK tanks, instead of buffing all other tanks.
What I would do, is change RNG so its impossible to kill a tank provided they are geared for instance, and healers are as well.
Currently what happens once in a while, is 3 hits in a row without any parry/dodge. At that same time, healers are being forced to move, so they can't heal. When Tank takes unusual amount of damage while healers are incapacitated - that's just a failed RNG. RNG cannot be as simple as a dice roll, it has to incorporate other factors.
So I say: buff all tanks, buff all healers. Fix up RNG so that it can't roll against you if that makes it unreasonable to keep tank alive.
Remember guys, if a dps dies, group doesn't wipe. But if a tank dies, raids usually wipe.
After fixing up RNG to not be truly random, and have some sense, the second thing would be to lower the costs on all gear.
The above 2 suggestions (buffing tanks+healers) and lowering badge gear cost. Will help struggling guilds clear more of the content. Alts, and new 80s will gear up much faster. And this will still require skill, maybe not as much as top guilds who already cleared Ulduar, but some skill.
If you get badges from heroics which are good enough for Ulduar gear, than you are skipping t7 content entirely, and that doesn't make much sense to me. By doing the changes I suggested, t7 would be drastically simpler (if tanks/healers are tuned to t9 content, obviously t7 will be easier and t8 too).
On the other hand I rolled a druid on a horde server (main is alliance), and knowing that once I hit 80, I don't have to spend months gearing up for latest raid, feels good. (True I'll have to spend weeks to get all badges, and it's not like all gear is available from badges, so still gotta do some old raids)
Or you could just lower all existing bosses HP by 30%, which they did when 3.0 came out at the end of BC.
Post by
MikadoGG
What I would do, is change RNG so its impossible to kill a tank provided they are geared for instance, and healers are as well.
Currently what happens once in a while, is 3 hits in a row without any parry/dodge. At that same time, healers are being forced to move, so they can't heal. When Tank takes unusual amount of damage while healers are incapacitated - that's just a failed RNG. RNG cannot be as simple as a dice roll, it has to incorporate other factors.
Granted discipline healing is my off-spec (however,often used in raiding),in my experience if the tanks+healers are geared for the raid and/or the hard mode they are doing this rarely happens at all. For instance, healing a tank tanking Steelbreaker. He never dies unless 1. healers are making mistakes 2. the dpser assigned to dispel fusion punch is too slow 3. tank fails to move him out of a rune of power fast enough (if runemaster is still alive at this point) 4. cooldowns are not timed properly or any combination of the above. Granted, this is just ONE example but imho it's one of the best gauges for tank survival/healing that Ulduar has to offer.
TLDR; I think healing/tanking is fine, it's just getting more challenging now on certain fights.
Post by
TheMediator
If this is the problem, then yes, I agree with you. Seperating them would be a good idea as they would be on seperate lockout timers but probably not feasable because you need to
engage
the hard mode, which is optional. Jumping straight over two tier levels in raids is an even worse solution IMHO because players are skipping the learning process, unless the T9 raid's normal mode is made to be equivalent to Naxx. Dropping Emblems a tier level lower, and increasing the amounts of Emblems of Conquest that are dropped by 10 Ulduar/25 Naxx would also be a plausible solution. Raiders would continue to go through Naxx, get tier gear that is one level higher and then move on, rather than get them from 5 man heroics which seems like it's heading in the wrong direction.
Even allowing both Ulduar and Naxx to drop Emblems of Conquest is better than allowing Heroics to as well. I just don't see the reasoning in allowing Heroics to drop the emblems. It eliminates the whole sense of accomplishment from raiding.
You can earn 45 (iirc) Emblems of Conquest in
one day
from the current Heroics that are out now if this change is implemented. That means that in just two days, you could have one piece of tier, and they're bringing out a few new 5 man Heroics as well, so it might just reach 58 emblems in one day. That doesn't seem rational whatsoever, and that's completely ignoring if you make time for OS/VoA/Malygos/Naxx/Ulduar, 10 or 25.
I see what you're saying, actually I sort of agree, I suppose it might be better to make people go to Naxx before they can pass over Ulduar, since at least those players will get raid experience.
Post by
HoleofArt
If this is the problem, then yes, I agree with you. Seperating them would be a good idea as they would be on seperate lockout timers but probably not feasable because you need to
engage
the hard mode, which is optional. Jumping straight over two tier levels in raids is an even worse solution IMHO because players are skipping the learning process, unless the T9 raid's normal mode is made to be equivalent to Naxx. Dropping Emblems a tier level lower, and increasing the amounts of Emblems of Conquest that are dropped by 10 Ulduar/25 Naxx would also be a plausible solution. Raiders would continue to go through Naxx, get tier gear that is one level higher and then move on, rather than get them from 5 man heroics which seems like it's heading in the wrong direction.
Even allowing both Ulduar and Naxx to drop Emblems of Conquest is better than allowing Heroics to as well. I just don't see the reasoning in allowing Heroics to drop the emblems. It eliminates the whole sense of accomplishment from raiding.
You can earn 45 (iirc) Emblems of Conquest in
one day
from the current Heroics that are out now if this change is implemented. That means that in just two days, you could have one piece of tier, and they're bringing out a few new 5 man Heroics as well, so it might just reach 58 emblems in one day. That doesn't seem rational whatsoever, and that's completely ignoring if you make time for OS/VoA/Malygos/Naxx/Ulduar, 10 or 25.
Actually, I like that idea.
I'm not so sure on why heroics need EoC. The EoH gear, plus heroics gear, is more than enough to get by in 10 man Naxx.
If anything, give Naxx EoC so there won't be any complete raid noobs in the following raids. Some experience is better than none.
Post by
145032
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheMediator
Seriously, there's a reason blizzard is putting this in after saying they thought it was a mistake - they made a huge error with ulduar bosses being on the same reset timer as their hard mode counterparts, so players need to be able to leapfrog the instance to get into the next tier.
I don't want an argument from you but I want to know what the problem is? You get normal, hard mode and tier (in some cases) loot from the boss if you kill it in hard mode. Where is the error?
The error is that raiders are hitting the hard modes, and people coming out of heroics with a couple of naxx pieces can't get into those hard mode groups, because they have to have done ulduar before, but they can't do ulduar because they don't have the loot for it. Catch 22 at its finest. Because of this oversight, ulduar has to be leap over to allow players to have a proper progression.
How exactly do you think the rest of us are able to do hard modes? We put in the effort of raiding to get the gear, theres nothing stopping newer people from doing that. Most groups don't do hard modes because they simply don't have the gear for it, there will always be guilds out there doing ulduar and no hard modes. People need to stop being lazy and wanting to skip over the entry raids to get to the harder ones, they need to put in the effort like the rest of us.
Yes, you put in the effort, when the majority of people were doing normal modes. Now people who want to do ulduar who are serious do the hard modes, and refuse to take those without ulduar gear into ulduar. That's the flaw that you don't see. If Joe Shmoe who just finished the previous content can't get into the next content because no one wants someone who just finished the previous content, only those who are already doing the current content, there's a problem.
Post by
Porcell
Yes, you put in the effort, when the majority of people were doing normal modes. Now people who want to do ulduar who are serious do the hard modes, and refuse to take those without ulduar gear into ulduar. That's the flaw that you don't see. If Joe Shmoe who just finished the previous content can't get into the next content because no one wants someone who just finished the previous content, only those who are already doing the current content, there's a problem.
I guess I don't see how you can draw that conclusion. You say there's group A who is coming out of Heroics and a little Naxx, and there's group B who's in a guild doing hard modes in Ulduar. You can make no opening in your argument for group C, the group who's done gearing up in 10 man Naxx, has pugged a few 25 man Naxx, and are ready to start regular 10 man Ulduar? Why should group A expect to start running with group B, when they could seek out group C...
If I was in group B (geared up in Ulduar, doing Ulduar hard modes), I wouldn't want to take plain Jane 80s who have run a couple heroics either. Why should I? You seem to be saying that there is no group C (people who doing Ulduar normal modes). I don't see how you can have that opinion.
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