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Hunter and Threat
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Post by
Bllets
I'm the RL and MT of a 10man guild, guild gear is mainly from 10man and very few pieces from Uld25/Toc25.
The issue i'm having is that our hunter is pulling aggro, even though DPS isn't "that" high. And it's ONLY the hunters threat that's a problem. Warlocks/mages/Rogues with more dps (500-1k) are not even close compared to him.
I could swear that his TPS is higher then his DPS, but that might just be me?
Last night on Hodir i could exactly just keep aggro with our mage and warlock each doing 10k DPS. Without any fight specific buffs for me.
Is this normal? or is it a issue with the hunter?
I don't believe my TPS is the problem.
Post by
400358
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Bllets
The most usual reason is that the Hunter has a pet with tanking abilities (taunt, thundershock) and / or has left their pet's growl (which raises threat) on auto-cast. This will cause the Hunter's pet to pull off you, and lead to the hunter getting aggro far too often. In a raid it's normal for Hunters to not use pets with taunts, or to make sure that their pet does not have any of these abilities (and growl) on auto-cast, to avoid just this. Sometimes we forget, or occasionally we don't know, so that would be my first port of call to check.
A less likely explanation is that the Hunter is using Distracting shot to taunt the target into dropping aggro on you and attacking him. This would generally be a case of extreme confusion (no hunter should be using Distracting shot on the tank's target unless asked) or crazyness, so it's a lot less likely than there being something wrong with pet choice or pet abilities.
Is threat from pet and hunter shared?
Because i have no issues with his pet, but only the hunter itself. And the threat isn't coming like from one second to another, like with a taunt. But slowly progressing up to a point where he is above me.
Post by
400358
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Post by
Bllets
Well its possible that you are just getting the effect of a Survival rotation, which starts with DoT effects and tends to build up cumulatively to much higher DPS. Recount often makes this sort of rotation look like low dps (because it is averaging over the whole fight, including the start when DoTs are applied, rapid shots have not kicked in and so on), but it's actually spiking much higher.
As an example it's normal for me, unbuffed with middling heroic gear, to get something like 1.6k when off grinding on my own, but if you look at a dps graph it's easy to just be reaching 2.8-3.2k just before the average mob dies. Given more time it's normal to have that curve keep going up (usually because lock and load procs), so the average stays innacurate. So overall dps is low, but the peak dps spikes much higher. You might be seeing an effect like that?
Other people will give you more experienced opinions no doubt :)
I were looking through the logs and his highest peak happened after 2min and 30sec, with 7405dps. Early on the fight, he peaked at 6588dps. But the thing is, i have mage with 7114dps and a warlock with 9224dps peaks at the same time.
His dps this fight were 4028,5. Highest were a lock with 4563dps. I'm around 80% sure that he got aggro at one point in this fight.
But I'll try to keep a better eye for dps peaks, to see if that's the issue in the future.
Question though, hunters have no threat reduction talents at all?
Post by
drbosnovich
No we do, tell him to feign when its gets high, MD at the pull, and wait a bit before starting. Like any DPS should. And if he doesn't have omen, he shouldn't be raiding.
And tell him to wait until aggro drops before pulling out of feign, it can take a while sometimes
End of the day, if a dps pulls threat, there is no one to blame but them. If I go into an HC with a recently dinged tank whose still learning, its my job to throttle my dps to keep my threat below his.
Hunters (particularly SV) do pull a lot of threat, its just like that. Thats why we have the best threat reduction ability.
Another good technique is to get the tank to let the mobs go to the hunter. He should learn quick then... if thats greeted with a 'FFS TANK! and HEAL ME!' just get rid of and move on.
Post by
445236
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Post by
izuul
Hunters generate a ton of threat because we have no passive threat reducing ability, but a hunter shouldn't be pulling threat off the tank on boss fights. We have the best threat dump in the game in Feign Death not to mention Misdirection.
The Hodir fight can be tricky with threat because of the Storm Cloud buff. If your hunter gets that buff right off the bat he needs to be very careful because the tank won't have sufficient threat built up to hold the mob.
It's possible to jump up the threat list so fast that there's no time to react. That's why your hunter needs to be aware of that possiblity before it actually happens so that he can plan for it. He needs to be MDing the tank every 30 seconds at least until the first Flash Freeze, and should FD to reset threat if he gets the Storm Cloud.
Having your rogue use TotT early would help alot as well.
After Flash Freeze your ranged DPS should be breaking out the mages, and the tank will have a chance to build up sufficient threat. It's more a matter of the tank keeping ahead of the melee on threat at that point.
Post by
izuul
And if he doesn't have omen, he shouldn't be raiding.
sad statement ^^^ i raid and dont have omen. so what does that mean?
If you dont have *some* sort of threat meter, you aren't a raider.
PUGing doesn't count.
Post by
Bllets
Hunters generate a ton of threat because we have no passive threat reducing ability, but a hunter shouldn't be pulling threat off the tank on boss fights. We have the best threat dump in the game in Feign Death not to mention Misdirection.
The Hodir fight can be tricky with threat because of the Storm Cloud buff. If your hunter gets that buff right off the bat he needs to be very careful because the tank won't have sufficient threat built up to hold the mob.
It's possible to jump up the threat list so fast that there's no time to react. That's why your hunter needs to be aware of that possiblity before it actually happens so that he can plan for it. He needs to be MDing the tank every 30 seconds at least until the first Flash Freeze, and should FD to reset threat if he gets the Storm Cloud.
Having your rogue use TotT early would help alot as well.
After Flash Freeze your ranged DPS should be breaking out the mages, and the tank will have a chance to build up sufficient threat. It's more a matter of the tank keeping ahead of the melee on threat at that point.
Will oddly enough, his threat was never really a issue on Hodir. Where he was pulling roughly 8k DPS.
It's actually generally mostly a issue from time to time, on non gimmick fights.
Post by
234288
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Post by
Lands
If you dont have *some* sort of threat meter, you aren't a raider.
PUGing doesn't count.
Even default UI has *some* sort of threat meter, fyi
Thats why we have the best threat reduction ability.
Another sad statement
Post by
93026
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384646
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298296
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357881
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445236
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Post by
Tamal2004
Try Yogg + 0 as a survival hunter decked in agility gear. That's what? 65% crit + master tact + ES crit buffs... ye p1 is hectic. Good thing N-elf hunters have 2 threat drops. Anyway at high levels, you cant avoid this problem. Survival hunter burst is just insane and the hunter just has to know the fight well enough, he can over aggro all he wants he just has to drop the threat when possible. Having a Lock n Load using one ES then feigning is stupid, ES run ES run ES then FD, or if your tank taunts, its better for him.
Most fights yes, FD is the normal thing to do, but fights where the damage really does count and a dps cant really hold back, it's the tanks duty to hold aggro.
Post by
izuul
Nobody
should
be pulling threat in a boss fight but it happens and for me it happens far more then I would like. I have an unbuffed crit rate of about 37.5% which means that with typical buffs I am over 40% and nearly or well over 50% with several special shots (MM hunter). There are times when without warning I can go from 80% threat to pulling target
I dont have that problem, but if you do, you should be FDing at 80% so that it doesn't happen.
We don't pull threat until 130%. Barring fight mechanics like Hodir where you can suddenly get a massive spike in damage early in the fight, there is typically
plenty
of time b/t when your Omen warning goes off (i usually keep mine at 80%) and when you actually pull threat.
The one thing you have to be careful about, especially on bosses that are kited, is getting inside melee range. If your threat is over 110% and you get into melee range, you will be insta-gibbed by the boss.
Post by
93026
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