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HsR's Demographics of Wowhead: Religion
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Post by
Monday
Woo, switched over.
Anyways, some basics.
We don't believe in the trinity. Heavenly Father is a different being from Jesus, both of whom have bodies. The Holy Ghost is a spirit, the last part of the Godhead, and he doesn't have a body (obviously).
There are other gods, but Heavenly Father created this planet, and is the God of this planet.
There is almost nobody who goes to Perdition (aka Hell). There is Spirit Paradise and Spirit Prison, which are contemporary heaven and hell, but afterward people are further separated into three degrees of glory, Celestial (top), Terrestrial (middle) and Telestial (bottom). All are more glorious than this earth. Perdition, or Outer Darkness, contains Satan, the 1/3rd of the host and any Sons of Perdition (which currently the only one we know of is Cain).
It is believed that those who go to the top degree in the Celestial kingdom will be Gods and Goddesses themselves.
It's possible I've gotten things wrong, not being an apostle or seminary teacher, and if you have any other specific questions, fell free to ask.
I sometimes try to engage them in a serious conversation about what they believe, but I usually get the same sort of evasive non-responses.
I don't like to be in discussions about this stuff because of past experiences, so don't abuse this opportunity.
Post by
296147
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
So what I'm getting is that Mormonism is basically Christianity, but a lot more complicated and doesn't rely on the whole "IF YOU DON'T REPENT, THOU SHALT BE SENT TO HELL!" gimmick.
What exactly is "simple" about the rest of Christianity?
Post by
296147
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Well, simple compared to what you presented.
I'm not Funden, nor Mormon.
But
what I did present
is a bit on the not-so-simple side.
Post by
Skreeran
Hey Fund, I'm curious. I was considering your stated beliefs, and I had some questions, if you don't mind me asking:
Our Earth is some 4.54 billion years old. To my understanding of your beliefs, the god who created Earth the way it is (presumably from the dust and comets and so on surrounding the sun, unless you reject the idea of planetary accretion) himself would have come from another planet. But since our universe is only 13.75 billion years old, this can only go so far. If you accept the scientifically agreed upon age of the universe (as an aside, that's one of the things that always bothered me about beliefs that the universe is extraordinarily young (like YECs), and that it is extraordinarily old (like Scientologists), it requires a complete rejection of scientifically provable facts), you cannot have an infinite regression of gods creating planets on which there appear mortals who become gods and so on.
So, my question is this: Since there is a point in our universes history where there could not have been any terrestrial life or planets, do you think there was some kind of prime god who created the universe? And on top of that, do you think the god>planet>mortal>god cycle might be analogous to some kind of god>universe>planet>god>universe cycle?
In other words, do you think that there is another tier of gods who govern entire universes rather than single planets?
Post by
Monday
It's very possible. Obviously I don't have perfect knowledge of this, but I know that one theory going around is that one becomes a God of their planet, then goes on to a universe. Thus, the Big Bang is the start of our universe, and was created with the remnants of the old universe.
If that makes any sense.
Post by
Skreeran
Created from the remnants of the old universe? So you suppose there's only a finite amount (or even just one?) So then not every one who became a planet god would go on to become a universe god, if I follow correctly, since there's a finite amount of universes and theoretically infinite amount of gods. In addition, of a universe can be destroyed, that would suggest that gods can die, unless they're carried over into the new universe, which just gets confusing.
I was envisioning some kinda of exponentially increasing multiverse, where every god gets their own universe eventually, ad infinitum.
Post by
xaratherus
So what I'm getting is that Mormonism is basically Christianity, but a lot more complicated and doesn't rely on the whole "IF YOU DON'T REPENT, THOU SHALT BE SENT TO HELL!" gimmick.
What exactly is "simple" about the rest of Christianity?
Well, simple compared to what you presented.
Depends on the flavor of Christianity you're sampling.
Post by
Monday
/shrug
I have no idea. It's possible that it isn't created from the remnants of the old universe.
Post by
Skreeran
I just find terms like "the old universe" confusing, because I'm visualizing an infinite number of sister universes, rather than just one that's reborn over and over.
Post by
Monday
That's possible as well.
Post by
Skreeran
I was just curious is all. The only two scenarios I could think of for the orgin of your god cycle were an infinite regression into the past, which is in opposition with scientific facts (i.e. the age of the universe), or an even greater power creating the universe (or alternatively, the universe coming into existence all on its own, but that kind takes away the need for a god in the first place... :P).
Post by
Monday
I was just curious is all.
It's fine. I encourage questions, excluding those explicitly targeting me.
The only two scenarios I could think of for the orgin of your god cycle were an infinite regression into the past, which is in opposition with scientific facts
That's official, iirc. Can't remember off the top of my head. I believe that they use the infinite universe theory with that.
or an even greater power creating the universe
/shrug
Post by
Skreeran
That's official, iirc. Can't remember off the top of my head. I believe that they use the infinite universe theory with that.You mean a steady state unchanging universe (which makes sense, considering that was the scientific consensus in Joseph Smith's time), or an infinite number of universes big banging and dying out over in a multiverse foam?
Post by
Monday
This
should answer some questions. It might also prove some of my statements wrong, which is possible as I can't remember everything about it off the top of my head.
Post by
Skreeran
Well, the only thing I would really object to is the belief that the elements are eternal. Thanks to our discovery of fusion and fission, we now know that elements are all derived from hydrogen in the cores of stars. I mean, you're free to believe what you want, but if I were a Mormon, I'd probably want to sacrifice a bit of scriptural literalism in favor of having my faith line up with known physics. I don't know, maybe you already do that, I'm just offering my input. I suppose it's possible that's not wanted, in which case just say so, I was just curious.
Post by
Monday
Well, the only thing I would really object to is the belief that the elements are eternal. Thanks to our discovery of fusion and fission, we now know that elements are all derived from hydrogen in the cores of stars. I mean, you're free to believe what you want, but if I were a Mormon, I'd probably want to sacrifice a bit of scriptural literalism in favor of having my faith line up with known physics.
According to Mormon scripture, "the elements are eternal". This means, according to Smith, that the elements are co-existent with God, and "they may be organized and reorganized, but not destroyed. They had not beginning, and can have no end."
Also, thought you might like this: Mormons believe in a universe and a God governed by physical law, in which all miracles, including acts of God, have a natural explanation, though perhaps humans do not yet understand the physical laws.
Post by
Skreeran
Well, the only thing I would really object to is the belief that the elements are eternal. Thanks to our discovery of fusion and fission, we now know that elements are all derived from hydrogen in the cores of stars. I mean, you're free to believe what you want, but if I were a Mormon, I'd probably want to sacrifice a bit of scriptural literalism in favor of having my faith line up with known physics.
According to Mormon scripture, "the elements are eternal". This means, according to Smith, that the elements are co-existent with God, and "they may be organized and reorganized, but not destroyed. They had not beginning, and can have no end."Well, I was assuming that by "elements" he meant the elements of the periodic table. They are most certainly not eternal. If he's referring to subatomic particles, then I might point to the fact that shortly after the Big Bang, the universe was filled solely with energy, and particles condensed later.
Unless by "elements" he counts both matter and energy, in which case I might still have a bit of a problem (since energy, space, and time are believed to have been created at the Big Bang, though I suppose it's possible that the Big Bang was actually a
Big Bounce
; I'm not an expert), but that seems more satisfying.
Also, thought you might like this: Mormons believe in a universe and a God governed by physical law, in which all miracles, including acts of God, have a natural explanation, though perhaps humans do not yet understand the physical laws.Yeah, I actually found that rather satisfying. It may still be far gone from my atheistic rationalism, but at least it's better than the belief in straight up magical divine intervention.
Post by
606231
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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