This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Classic Theme
Thottbot Theme
Holy Paladin - Methods for Mana Efficiency
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
Rouen
(5/21/09 2:40pm EST) Update:
Per user request, I have worked out the numbers for Flash of Light in the same fashion as Holy Light for readers is a quick and dirty reference. Holy Shock numbers are soon to follow. All coefficients listed are base numbers and do not account for talents.
(6/2/09 04:11 EST) Update:
Once again by request, I've included the numbers for Holy Shock. Once again, all coefficents listed are base numbers thus talents are not included.
*** = User requested information or significant update
After digging through a metric ton of proven facts and theorycraft with my excess of free time, here is the setup I'll be shooting for with my holy pally. Let me know what you think if you feel like breaking this down. I have a clear vision of what I want, so here is the summary of my ideal healidin. The final results of my findings here are the best-case scenario and can be achieved if you have the equipment and thus should be the goal. The REQUIRED gear for this build are listed in the Must-Have bullets below, with the exception of the listed Meta Gem. I wish to make it clear that I made every attempt to avoid theorycraft when possible.
Cookie Cutter Pally Spec with my own glyph setup
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sxAztM0sVu0tgdbZVcbx0h:fwdczV
*
The cookie cutter holy spec. You can't really go wrong, there are no real deficits associated with it to my knowledge.
*
Delving into the Retribution tree in this 51/2/18 setup will provide your healing spells with a total of 19% crit from talents alone.
Gear to shoot for
Stack in this order, int, crit, SP, haste. Only stack haste once SP is 2k+ and crit is sufficiently high, 40-45%+. 50% crit is within the realm of possibility.
Why?
*
Int converts to Spell Power and further adds to spell crit.
*
Crit improves
Illumination
returns on mana. This is a holy paladin's bread and butter.
*
Spell Power is a given... it will be on any healing plate gear.
*
Haste for faster heals since a paladin is a reactive healer type. Mana efficiency comes first because if your OOM, haste won't matter.
Must-haves
*
(Meta-Gem)
Insightful Earthsiege Diamond
gives 21 int (315 mana), returns 600 mana every 20-30 seconds if spamming FoL, internal CD is apparently about 20 sec. If you feel like working the math, it comes out to being approximately 85 MP5 in a fight longer then a few minutes.
*
Libram of Renewal
: Reduces BASE mana cost of Holy Light by 113.
*
Tier 7 4 Piece Bonus (
Holy Light Spell Reduction
): Reduces cost of Holy Light by 5%, stackable.
Glyphs
*
Glyph of Seal of Wisdom
: Reduces cost of holy spells by 5%, stackable
*
Glyph of Holy Light
: Heals up to 5 friendlies within 8 yards of the target of a Holy Light gains 10% of the total heal. Combined with Beacon of Light, you have a make shift raid healer.
*
Glyph of Divinity
: Restores twice as much mana on your target and grants you the same amount. If you
Lay on Hands
yourself, this returns x4 the mana then normal, totaling 7800 mana. This glyph effectively turns your "oh ^&*! the tank's about to die button" into the new "oh ^&*! I'm OOM" button. This shouldn't happen if you make effective use of
Divine Plea
and
Divine Illumination
, but now you have a great fall back by providing Lay On Hands more utility, along with Runic Mana Potions.
Holy Light Mana Returns
(This is not theory crafting since the game itself provides the hard numbers, I'm just using math to lay it out)
Some facts...
*
A Level 80 Paladin has 4394 base mana.
*
Holy Light
costs 29% of base mana, so holy light costs 1274 mana at Level 80.
*
Holy Light spell power coefficient is 166%, Flash of Light has a 100% coefficient, and Holy Shock has a 81%. (Tested as of Patch 3.0.9)
*
Holy spell mana reductions DO stack.
Using the Libram of Renewal (Minus 113 from Holy Light), Tier 7 4 piece bonus (5% Holy Light Discount) , and the Glyph of Seal of Wisdom (5% Holy Spells Discount), here is the new default spell cost for Holy Light.
(1274 - 113) * (1 x (0.05 + 0.05) = 1044.9 Mana Per Cast
You save 1274 - 1044 = 230 Mana Per Cast
Since Illumination proc's to return 60% of the BASE mana cost, each return will be 764 mana.
Using the new cost of Holy Light (1044), Illumination will effectively return a higher percentage of mana.
764 / 1044 = 73.18% mana returned.
Now that we have these new numbers, lets look at the possibilities of the reduced cost of Holy Light, the higher % of mana returns with Illumination, and the usage of Divine Illumination. To make this short and sweet, I'm not going to calcuate crit % and proc's per minute (PPM) into this.
Divine Illumination gives you a 50% discount on healing spells for 15 seconds. Never mind the spell for a moment, take a look at this. (Remember the new cost of Holy Light is 1044)
Per casting of Holy Light while under the effects of Divine Illumination...
1044 - (1044 * 0.5) =
522 Mana Per Cast
This is a pretty inexpensive heal. But if Illumination proc's (aka Holy Light crits) you gain 764 mana.... Think about this.
-522 + 764 = 242
Mana Profit Gained
When you crit Holy Light while under the effects of Divine Illumination, you gained 242 mana more then what you had before you cast Holy Light just now. So if I had 5000 mana and I casted Holy Light which crits, I now have 5242 mana.
***Flash of Light Information and Mana Returns
*
Flash of Light costs 7% of base mana. @ LV80, it costs 307 mana.
*
Flash of Light coefficient is 100% of your spell power.
*
There are no librams that reduce the cost of Flash of Light, but there are some that improve the spell power of FoL. Unfortunately, they are mostly high end PvP rewards. They are
Furious Gladiator's Libram of Justice
and
Deadly Gladiator's Libram of Justice
.
*
Glyph of Flash of Light
provides an extra 5% critical chance to the spell, but isn't really viable for raiding. This may be of greater use in PvP.
The only mana discount available to Flash of Light, which is already a very mana efficient spell, is the Glyph of Seal of Wisdom (5% discount). Here's the math.
307.58 * 0.05 = 15.379 Mana Saved
307.58 - 15.379 = 292.201 New Mana Cost of Flash of Light
Since Illumination will return 60% of the
BASE
mana cost of the cast spell, here is the amount returned.
307.58 * 0.6 = 184.548 Mana Returned
Using the new mana cost of Flash of Light with Glyph of Seal of Wisdom (292.201) and under the effects of Divine Illumination, Flash of Light now costs...
292.201 - (307.58 * 0.5) = 138.411 Mana
With this numbers in hand, we can now readily see what kind of mana profit you can expect from Flash of Light under the condition that you crit with Divine Illumination active.
-138.411 + 184.548 = 46.137
Mana Profit Gained
Divine Illumination now effectively returns 63.15% mana. This is a very minor increase when compared to the profit gained from Holy Light with the correct equipment listed above since there is no comparable gear to decrease the cost of Flash of Light.
***Holy Shock Mana Returns
*
Holy Shock costs 18% of your base mana, @LV80, it costs 790 mana. (4394 total base mana)
*
Holy Shock has a spellpower coefficient of 81%, tested as of 3.0.9.
*
There are no useful librams for Holy Shock in WotLK. The only libram that exists to augment Holy Shock is
Venture Co. Libram of Most Holy Deeds
.
*
The
Glyph of Holy Shock
decreases the cooldown of Holy Shock from 6 seconds to 5 seconds. It's effectiveness is slightly limited for PvE, but it is a choice glyph for an arena shockidin.
The only mana discount available to Holy Shock is by the Glyph of Seal of Wisdom (5% discount).
790 * (1 - 0.05) =
750.5 Mana Per Cast
Illumination returns 60% of the BASE mana cost...
790 * 0.6 = 474 Mana Returned
Here are the Illumination returns for Holy Shock while under the effects of Divine Illumination and effective percentage returned.
(-750 * 0.5) + 474 =
99 Mana Profit Gained
474 / 750 =
63.2% Effective Mana Returned
The Effective Mana Returned % Compared
Holy Light: 73.18%
Flash of Light: 63.15%
Holy Shock: 63.2%
***Health Restored vs Mana Cost
Coming at a future date (Posted 6/2/09)
Caveats
There are a few things that are up to preference, it's a given. The Glyph of Seal of Wisdom could be replaced with the
Glyph of Seal of Light
if mana isn't a problem for you anymore, you could also splice out the Glyph of Divinity if the same is true for something else. For me, I will change these glyphs once I get out into a raid and have a greater feel and understanding of what I'll need in the end. Also, sacrificing the points out of Sanctity of Battle (losing 3% spell crit) for Divinity (5% total heals) is also a preference.
For the record, at the time of this writing my healidin is only level 74, and has never healed a raid before. Here is a wow-heroes link since I can't access the armory from here.
http://www.wow-heroes.com/index.php?zone=us&server=Azjol-Nerub&name=Kirsis
Conclusion
I've compiled this list together for myself and after bouncing this around to some healidin's I know personally via email , I feel this would be a good summary/reference for other healidins out there. I'm always looking for improvements and am open to suggestion, so feel free to tear this apart at your leisure. Once I reach level 80, I fully intend to revise this list and repost it once I have accumulated real-time data and work it into my summary.
In the end, we all can agree that it's experience and good judgement that will keep a tank up, this is especially true if the tank is doing his own job right.
Edit: I have included the use of item links into the OP.
Post by
228908
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aleanos
It's a good post mate, but I'd say you could expand on some parts.
Alternative glyphs: Some math and explanations to other glyphs aswell would be great, such as FoL, BoL, HS etc.
The stat weighing is most welcome, but I'd say you ought to split them up into "X>Y>Z" forms, one for below 1.6k sp and one for above 2k~isch. It's also worthwhile to mention haste rating after the 1sec GcD cap and how this affects it's value.
The math and mana cost on Holy Light is great, some numbers for HS coefficients and the mana cost of HS and FoL would perfect it.
Instead of only mentioning one cookie-cutter you could mention others aswell and compare their pro's and cons (such as holy/prot builds, holy/ret builds with PoJ etc etc.)
Also just as the icing on the cake, spell tips (not rotations) would be great. i.e. simple statements such as "It's good to put SS on the tank", "which target should be the target of Beacon of light", "Wings are best used at these times", "When to DP". Etc. Etc.
Overall I'd say you're going to have to expand a wee bit, you're mainly talking about one spec, glyph set up and HL mana on return/under the effect of DI.
Should you make these changes however I'd be more than willing to request a sticky :)
Post by
Rouen
Thank you guys for the compliments, I put a lot of time on doing the research and summarizing what I found in regards to mana efficiency.
I made a point to try and keep it unnecessary math out of the post to try and keep it as simple as possible, which I believe I did successfully. This isn't meant to be an "end all be all" guide, but you can view it as a beginning of one, as one mere suggestion to what you could do.
Aleanos said:
Should you make these changes however I'd be more than willing to request a sticky :)
I originally wasn't going to put it on the forums, but after a while I decided I would throw it out there to see how it holds up to scrutiny and so far it's been positive. I can make the additions that were suggested, I'll probably need to completely redo the layout of the post so it stays organized.
Aleanos said:
Also just as the icing on the cake, spell tips (not rotations) would be great. i.e. simple statements such as "It's good to put SS on the tank", "which target should be the target of Beacon of light", "Wings are best used at these times", "When to DP". Etc. Etc.
Remember, my paladin is not level 80 yet. I don't have a full spectrum of experience to draw on here, but as time goes on, I will gain it and add to this post (or a complete new post if enough time passes) what I find out works in the field.
Post by
Aleanos
Awsome I'm patiently looking forward to your improvements :)
I hope you'll enjoy healing on your paladin! ;D
Post by
slasher0161
*
Tier 7 4 Piece Bonus: Reduces cost of holy spells by 5%, stackable
does not equal
the 4 piece bonus
Aside from that very nice looking, and hope you enjoy paladin healing as much as i do (love getting @#$%^ed at on vent for hogging the healing in 10mans.
Post by
Rouen
*
Tier 7 4 Piece Bonus: Reduces cost of holy spells by 5%, stackable
does not equal
the 4 piece bonus
Aside from that very nice looking, and hope you enjoy paladin healing as much as i do (love getting @#$%^ed at on vent for hogging the healing in 10mans.
You are correct, that is my mistake. I've edited the original post to reflect the change.
Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aleanos
I like your reasoning YJMark, from a stat weighing perspective Divinity/Tuskarr's does come out on top.
However the 7% runspeed is not to be underestimated, in movement heavy fights it really shines (and save your/others life now and then). Therefore PoJ + Icewalker is very comparable with Divinity + tuskarr's.
However, as someone previously stated, PoJ "allows" you to not be as attentive/do some minor movement mistakes now and then. If you're knowledgable of the fight and you pay close attention the 7% is perfectly negectable (imo)
I personally roll with Divinity/Tuskarr's, I've never really felt that 7% more movement speed would make any significant difference, but people are different :)
Post by
204950
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rouen
What I did avoid in my post was a lot of math. I did this for two reasons.
1. Simplicity. This was mainly about mana efficiency, but I see there is some pushing to for me to delve more into the subject and possibly turn this into a full blown holy paladin guide. I'll honor that wish as I discover more.
2. Ignorance. I am unfamiliar with the equations used to compare the value of certain stats per class. For example...
Icewalker = 12 crit rating
PoJ = 15% running speed
2% Heals = min of +40 spell power (assuming you have 2k spell power).
Tuskarr's = 8% runspeed and 12 Stamina
So the difference you are looking at between Icewalker/PoJ and Divinity/Tuskarr is:
-12 crit rating
-7% run speed
+40 spell power
+12 Stamina
The only real things we probably want to look at are 12 crit rating vs 40+ spell power. The small run speed bonus vs the health bonus are minor compared to those.
I know that crit > spell power, but it's more than 3x the spell power relative to crit rating.
No one puts
Enchant Gloves - Blasting
on their gloves. Most people use
Enchant Gloves - Exceptional Spellpower
. The spell power on that is less than 3x the crit rating. So if you choose that glove enchant, but don't choose Divinity over PoJ, then you are actually loosing the important stats for Holy Paladins.
Divinty = 40 spell power
Icewalker = 12 crit rating
40/12 = 3.3333
Gloves - Exceptional Spell Power = 28 spell power
Gloves - Blasting = 10 crit rating
28/10 = 2.8
I won't even get into
Enchant Gloves - Greater Blasting
. That will make it even more of a benefit.
I do not know the math behind comparing the value critical rating versus spell power. If someone can bring me up to speed on these numbers and the math you used to come to that conclusion, I'll weigh it out and possibly include those in the OP.
Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rouen
Divinty = 40 spell power
Icewalker = 12 crit rating
40/12 = 3.3333
Here - I just divided them to get a ratio of spell power:crit rating. This higher the number, the more the spell power:crit rating ratio.
This is the section I wanted to know more about, sorry I didn't specify. What got me thinking was your comment of
Enchant Gloves - Greater Blasting
's 16 critical rating versus
Enchant Gloves - Greater Spellpower
's 28 spellpower. However, I'm afraid that any math (unless there is some provided by Blizzard themselves, I welcome anyone who links blue posts relating to the subject here if any exist) used to determine which is more beneficial delves into the realm of theorycrafting, which I avoid when humanly necessary to prevent it from being detrimental to this post. What makes the OP reliable is it's use of numbers that are provided in-game from the item/spell tooltips. This is what I am striving for.
Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rouen
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to come off that way, I didn't see your discussion as hijacking the post. I'm merely stating what I'm trying to accomplish and I welcome any discussion on the subject whatsoever. I did look up
Enchant Gloves - Greater Blasting
and saw that it was never implemented, but I forgot to mention that myself so no worries. It wasn't so much about which enchant to get, but simply
measuring the value of a certain amount of critical rating versus a certain amount of spellpower.
I want this to be scrutized to the letter. It's also very worthwhile to discuss what is absolutely necessary for a successfuly holy paladin versus what is a matter of preference. For example:
The 18 points in the Retribution tree (Here is the link again for convenience,
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sxAztM0sVu0tgdbZVcbx0h:fwdczV
) are to get the additional 8% since crit is
essential
to maintaining a holy paladin's mana pool and for great heals. For someone who doesn't have great gear yet, this is a very necessary move. The remaining two points went into Divinity for the 2% extra heals. Once you have great gear (Int, crit, SP, haste), you could put those points in something that might provide more utility. This is where you delve into personal preference. As YJMark pointed out, additional movement speed could be very helpful in certain raids. If you are not lacking in the required stats, investing those two points into
Pursuit of Justice
might be worthwhile. Alternatively, if you are having some problems with things other then gear/stats, there are some other places to invest those two points. For those healers who are generally very good, but are losing people because of fears or stuns, you could put those two points into
Unyielding Faith
to reduce your own downtime.
Another good way to invest those two points would be in
Blessed Hands.
Combining
Hand of Sacrifice
with
Divine Shield
and your 2 points invested this way, you can help save your tank's arse during a high damage moment if their damage reduction ability (Such as a warrior's
Shield Wall
) is on CD, or save your best DPS when they're aggro gets out of control.
Post by
228908
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rouen
Your probably right about not being able to accurately measure it, but people try to give it a face (theorycrafting) anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if the actual math for that comparison doesn't exist. At this time, I'm working out some additional numbers regarding
Flash of Light
and
Holy Shock
into the OP as was suggested earlier by Aleanos. Please keep your eyes out for changes to the original post, it will be mutating as suggestions roll in and for the sake of keeping it clean and streamlined, I won't mark every edit I make.
Post by
127934
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rouen
great post, would just like to add that your HL mana cost reductions and spell coefficients are slightly off.
HL should be:
(1274 - 113) * (1 - (0.5 + 0.5))= 1044.9
Which gets truncated by the game to give a mana cost of 1044, which is what shows form my spellbook.
As for SP coefficients it looks like you've forgotten
Healing Light
which boosts the coefficients of FoL and HL to 112% and 185.95% respectively (although I'm not sure how the game handles the decimal)
Correct, I posted the original coefficients for the healing spells just as an FYI to the reader. My numbers do not account for the coefficient added by talents. However, the equation you provided actually equals 0. It appears you probably just typed it in wrong (I'm using Order of Operations).
(1274 -113) = 1163
(1 - (0.5 + 0.5)) = 0
1163 x 0 = 0.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.