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Heroics minimum requirements (tank)
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Post by
biogoo
I know its too easy these days to outgear heroics in a mere evening of being dragged through ToCh (I got the eq by healing few runs while 78), and ppl often refuse to even do emblem runs with blue geared ppl, but...
I suppose there were days when gearing for heroics was something that had to be done, and I wonder - what are minimum tanking requirements (roughly) for a tank to be considered "ready" for heroics?
(HP, def, average ilvl...)
Im also building a tanking set, so this can help me to decide when I can go for a try, or If I should gather (gem, enchant) more gear.
EDIT: main reason for this topic is to help me decide if the tank we get through LFG is able to do the job, or if I should better quit. I dont mind healing low-geared ppl as long as they are geared enough.
Post by
CeeKay
make sure the tank is Def capped for heroics. 535 defense rating is what they need.
I'd also look for someone with at least 20k hp unbuffed if the character is an alt and the player knows the dungeon.
If the tank is def capped and has at least 20k hp any halfway competent healer should be able to keep them up in most of the easier heroics: UK, Nex, VH, AN. That should be a solid spring board to get more gear and progess to the other heroics and eventually raids.
The only other problem would be threat generation, but any low geared tank is going to have that issue and the dps are just going to have to scale back their damage to accomodate it.
The biggest issues by far is the def cap, followed by the knowledge the player has of the instance. If both of those bases are covered then there shouldn't be too many issues with a basic run through a heroic.
Post by
biogoo
20k is far less then I thought, but I suppose it would do. Thanks.
Post by
149504
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Post by
Porcell
So, I tried to recreate my approximate starting heroic gearset back when I hit 80. Note that this was only a couple weeks after WotLK release, so there weren't super healers and 5k DPS running heroics.
http://www.wowhead.com/?profile=15097698
A lot of crafted gear. A lot of Wyrmrest rep gear, since I did all the quest to get my rep up, and wore Wyrmrest when doing regular instance. Speaking of; regular 80 instances? Yeah, people used to run them all the time...
I didn't bother putting enchants on everything in the profile. That Titansteel helm isn't the one I used either, since at the time the Titansteel helm didn't have a meta socket, so I used some Blue one with the socket.
So that gearset is mostly crafted gear with about 3 or 4 items that were drops. With a few enchants it's at around 23.5k health and over the defense minimum. That's what we had to deal with "back in the day" and we did fine. None of this "ding 80, go on ToC farming runs and get full 200/219 epics in no time."
Post by
121564
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Post by
239153
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Post by
flakmeister
There is an unfortunate discrepancy between what is needed for running a heroic as a tank and what PUGs expect of a tank these days. Inflation in gear quality has lead most people to expect that the average tank must have at least 30 kilo health to pull it off when 23 k was considered sufficient early on in WOTLK.
The same concession of indifference to gear is simply not afforded to tanks and any would-be meatshields are better off DPSing or Healing through heroics to get the needed gear that way.
Post by
Raleandris
I seem to remember healing my old guild's MT in Naxx10 with just over 22k unbuffed hp about a week and a half after WotLK came out. Really, if you have a head, and are at or above 535 defense, you can tank a heroic.
Post by
biogoo
No amount of gear will save you if you run AK and let the tank get hit by Shadow Blast
Is this some kind of joke?
ALL those blast are regularly hitting ME as a healer, because the group fails to do anything about it.
I sorta of got used to it. Its only something over 10k so its not fatal.
Post by
148231
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Post by
121564
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Post by
biogoo
Hh, now I see it. Then its probably good that the tanks Ive run with failed to aggro the spider so I could soak the blasts:)
Post by
skumbananer
It is too late into the expansion to try and gear up a new tank through heroics in pugs.
Healers are used to being semi-afk, and will go into emo-mode if they have to pay attention. Dpsérs are used to aoeing down everything, and will flat out refuse to cc anything and will definitively refuse to not aoe.
The typical dpser in a pug is in toc5 h/conq emblem gear/2 pieces of t9. maybe one slot a ilvl200 epic. or a heroic blue, you will have a hard time holding aggro with any class besides a paladin against people who aoe a half second after or even two seconds before you use your thrown to corner pull. Being dressed in greens/blues and a bought epic doesnt help.
The typical dpser this late in expansion in a pug will make gearing your tank even harder, any tanking upgrades will be needed for offspecc/sidegrade, and they wont give a crap if you kick them afterwards.
Everyone will complain about your hp, and expect you to have atleast 30k for even the simplest heroic. Expect a lot of verbal (in text) abuse. No one will follow any tactics except nuke everything, no kill-order, no "dont stand in bad stuff", nothing.
So, to make a wall of text short, just forget about it. If you dont have a guild willing to boost you, your better of focusing on pvp and forgetting about pve except dailies and solo until next expansion.
Post by
206732
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Post by
234288
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Post by
Quest
If the tank is D capped
THERE IS NO DEFENSE CAP.
Post by
flakmeister
Though you ofcourse are right in that Defence will continue to cotribute to your avoidance even after reaching the crit hard cap, you'd be hard pressed to find any serious raid tank who'd forego gemming for Stamina in favour of Avoidance. In the tanking paradigm in which we play, Effective Health is king and his valet is called Stamina. No other stat will increase your Time to Live as he will.
You obviously know this, Quest. But the cry to battle of " There is no Def cap!" instills players with the delusion that going for Defence and Avoidance is a viable gearing strategy.
Post by
Bllets
I'll just post my reply to a thread regarding health in the DK section:
You need like 22-25k unbuffed to do heroics, and the healer doesn't even need to be epic geared to do it.
People are just getting used to be carried by good healers and/or tanks, and it's getting really pathetic these days.
Specially when it comes from dps which generally seems to be pretty bad geared.
This reminds i once got declined to a heroic because i only had ~34k health unbuffed.
Point:
+22k health
535 defense minimum
First time i did a heroic on this DK i had around ~26k health with rep gear, BS items and 5man normal gear. This was when OS10+3 was the hardest :>
Post by
Quest
Though you ofcourse are right in that Defence will continue to cotribute to your avoidance even after reaching the crit hard cap, you'd be hard pressed to find any serious raid tank who'd forego gemming for Stamina in favour of Avoidance. In the tanking paradigm in which we play, Effective Health is king and his valet is called Stamina. No other stat will increase your Time to Live as he will.
You obviously know this, Quest. But the cry to battle of " There is no Def cap!" instills players with the delusion that going for Defence and Avoidance is a viable gearing strategy.
You need to research effective health and TTL. If you're replacing every avoidance gem with pure stam, you're horrible. No one gems straight stam or straight avoidance unless its a gimmick fight, and if they get something like that from truthfully saying there is no def cap, then they have bigger issues, like assuming too much and following the mob, and not looking at facts enough.
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