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Haste Rating, Gift of the Earthmother and Revitalize
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Post by
121564
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Post by
260787
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Post by
121564
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Post by
curlymon
I'm telling you your math is irrelevant.
It is not connected to reality.
Unlike reality...Energy is not a constant in WoW... Gains can be made up from nowhere... I mean the whole basis of mana regen proves that...
Half the problems that moonkins have with mana are tied to this ridiculous notion that "I don't need all these mana talents".
As a moonkin myself I can assuredly tell you that a boomkin can get by with Omen of Clarity
alone
. The point at which you can do this in about mid way Nax geared. That math is out there and I can tell you for the last 2 months I have run without anything BUT OoC and been just fine. You need 1 Replenishment in a 10 man and 2+ in a 25 man to pull this off.
Your saying "well this is just my opinion" does not obviate my points. You are overselling a talent that looks better than it is. What I don't want is somebody who is just breaking into Naxxramas to think "the heck with Celestial Focus and Living Seed and Empowered Touch and Nature's Grace, I don't need all these healing talents".
Your job is to heal. It is to keep people alive. When you're at a high enough level that you can do that under all circumstances without fail, then you can start dialing back your healing potential to take ancillary talents like Revitalize.
The druid’s job in a raid is greater than just healing. We as a class bring an incredible amount of utility to a raid. In a min/max raid group revitalize is a highly sought after item because it increases the raid dps by a noticeable amount... that rage/energy/runic power doesn't just sit there unused... it's put to amazing effect and it is all the byproduct of a measly 3 talent points... you spoke of reality... I now welcome you to it... at least a part of it.
I put these two together because they are two sides of the same coin. Most people do not raid in guilds that are full of skilled players in great gear who are always on when it's time to raid. A lot of people raid with PuGs, or with guilds that can barely scrape together a raid in the first place, or with people who do not approach the game with the same intensity that even the average person who reads these forums (much less a 75-page mathfest like Elitist Jerks) displays.
When you live in that world, you do not have the luxury of min/maxing for optimum raid efficiency. You can't assume that somebody else is bringing a buff you need. You can't assume that the healers are going to heal you through whirlwinds or rain of fire or any of the other things that can kill you in the blink of an eye if you turn yourself into a glass cannon. You don't trade 3% more DPS for talents that let you DPS for eight minutes instead of six minutes. You don't go into an instance with 12,000 health because "it's not my job to take damage". You don't reduce your ability to do
your primary responsibility
in order to take talents that might help get a boss down thirty seconds faster.
This is not a situation where a teaspoon of awesome sauce is going to make
one whit
of difference to your success. If you are a healer, you need to be the living epitome of
Jesus Christ
. If you are a tank, you need to be the
M1 Abrahms
of your class. If you pew-pew for a living, and the boss has a six-minute enrage timer, you need to be able to, all by yourself, pew-pew at an acceptable level for six-and-a-half minutes. Because I promise you, if you hang around these kind of raids long enough, you will become intimately acquainted with every enrage timer, every void zone, every gimmick of every fight that will one-shot a tank.
I will be the first to tell you that all raiding groups are NOT alike... you argue the point yourself quite validly throughout here. The issue I have with this is you can't see the other side of the picture... the side where this DOES make a difference... where you CAN trust others to work with you...
Gore laid all this out as an explanation of a talent choice and what it actually means to take the talent... nothing he said is wrong... nothing he said is misleading... he just gave a very nicely laid out block of information so other who don't know about it and what it can do can make the decision for themselves...
Once again:
A lot of people raid with PuGs, or with guilds that can barely scrape together a raid in the first place, or with people who do not approach the game with the same intensity that even the
average person who reads these forums
Are you really trying to say his point isn't valid when it is directed at this specific group?
Post by
260787
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Post by
317595
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260787
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317595
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Post by
MegaVolt
As far as I know Nature's Grace just adds haste, right?
So a 1.5s GCD should become a 1.2s GCD while Nature's Grace is active.
If I understood you correctly you are saying that Nature's Grace does not add haste but only lowers casting time (without affecting the GCD). Which one is correct?
Post by
121564
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Post by
23709
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260787
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Post by
ArgentSun
This belongs to Theorycrafting more than it does to Druid forums. I encourage you to make another one, shorter thread, with only the basic points and most important conclusions, in which you refer to this one as evidence. The second thread should find itself in the Helpful Threads section.
Post by
QuestionC
I agree that the 'relative transfer' is a meaningless and misleading measure. The energy/rage/runic gains need to be put into some more useful context, like translating it straight to DPS. I still think revitalize is a compelling talent though.
Revitalize by my (admittedly sketchy) math and looking at my guild's last Mimiron kill seems to easily translate into over 100 DPS per talent point in a 25M raid, which says "must have" all over the place to me. There is not a DPS class in the world that wouldn't jump at such a talent, so why shouldn't druids?
An aside - I really wish this had stayed in the druid forums.
Post by
260787
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260787
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Post by
404185
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