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Haste or SP? elem
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Post by
436673
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Post by
205331
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283705
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Post by
MegaVolt
Spellpower helps with everything.
Haste only really helps with LB, not with LvB (since it's dominated by the cooldown).
I'd stick to SP and not gem for haste.
But then again gems (other then the meta) make for less then 5% of your overall dps. Their effect is vastly overrated. If your dps is good it really doesn't say much about your gemming strategy.
Post by
Gnub
Spellpower helps with everything.
Haste only really helps with LB, not with LvB (since it's dominated by the cooldown).
You know, the GCD is in fact affected by Haste.
Anyway, stacking Spellpower is the best, yes. Haste comes at a good second-place.
Post by
MegaVolt
You know, the GCD is in fact affected by Haste.
What should the GCD have to do with this?
Haste has almost no effect on your LvB. The GCD is irrelevant, it's about the spell cooldown. That isn't lowered by haste.
So haste increases your LB damage but almost leaves LvB damage unchanged.
It's very much like crit which also only helps your LB and does nothing for your LvB.
That's one of the main reasons why both haste and crit are inferior to spellpower.
Post by
tomgc
Faster GCDs after Flame Shock, faster Lava Bursts?
Post by
MegaVolt
Faster GCDs after Flame Shock, faster Lava Bursts?
So what? LvB still has to wait for the cooldown. And we are not talking about FS here.
My point was: Spellpower is beneficial to all spells.
Haste has a vastly reduced efficiency on LvB (due to the
cooldown
of the spell, it has
nothing
to do with the GCD) and thus has to lose out in comparison to spellpower.
It's similar to crit: It helps all your other spells but it does nothing for LvB. Not helping your strongest spell is obviously bad.
Post by
321678
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Post by
tomgc
Well, it makes your Lava Burst cast faster, which means you can get back to spamming LB faster. No, i'm not claiming that haste is better than SP. I was just pointing out what it benefits if it isn't allowing you to squeeze in an extra LB beterr LvB cooldowns.
Post by
MegaVolt
That's exactly what I said: It's beneficial to
other spells
and not LvB. Well, technically there is a minor benefit to LvB as well due to the lowered cast time, this however is completely neglectible compared to the cooldown.
Haste is not useless for a Shaman in general. It is just next to useless for your LvB. So all the gain is due to LB (and the FS gcd) which are weaker spells then LvB. That makes haste overall a less valuable stat then others that would benefit all spells equally (like spellpower).
Simple example:
Let's assume we have 2 spells, one dealing 100 damage (spell A) and one dealing 200 damage (spell B). Each has a cast time of 1 second, spell B has a cooldown so that within 10 seconds you can cast exactly 9 of spell A and 1 of spell B.
That gives us a total damage of 1100 in 10 seconds.
Now assume we increase the spells power by 10%, thats 110 damage for spell A and 220 for spell B.
Total damage within 10 seconds increases to 1210, gaining 110 damage.
Now assume instead of increasing the spells damage we increase haste by 10%. In 10 seconds that will free up 1 second to cast one more spell. However, since spell B has a cooldown we can only use that 1 additional second to cast spell A, giving 100 bonus damage.
Total damage within 10 seconds then is 1200, gaining 100 damage.
So there is a difference of 10 damage simply because of the fact that haste only works on the weaker of the two spells while spellpower works on both equally. The difference here is 10% (100 damage gain vs 110 damage gain) so in this example haste would be 10% less valuable then spellpower simply because of the cooldown that spell B has.
Post by
Zakkhar
The topic in EJ covers all:
http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t20914-shaman_elemental/
Basically Hit (under cap) > spp > haste > crit > int > mp5
Post by
Tenshigure
Spellpower helps with everything.
Haste only really helps with LB, not with LvB (since it's dominated by the cooldown).
I'd stick to SP and not gem for haste.
But then again gems (other then the meta) make for less then 5% of your overall dps. Their effect is vastly overrated. If your dps is good it really doesn't say much about your gemming strategy.
Both FS and LvB could care less about Haste, but then again...those are not your primary damage dealer, it's LBs.
Haste has it's place in gemming just as much as SP does. The only difference is where you'll have an immediate return through Spell Power, you have to hit a certain number in Haste for it to matter and jump up in damage (reducing the casting time enough to get an additional LB without clipping the LvB).
The link provided above has an image in the Haste section that shows where there are certain points it will jump (around approximately 25% haste and 32%(?)). As it's been said many times before, typically Uld gear and above have sufficient SP for you to start gemming Haste effectively since that gear has enough to get you to a window to push you over the edge.
As I've said in another thread that people just...well, they aren't understanding: Gemming & Enchants are not your primary damage dealers, but they will help with those last few inches to push you into the next bracket of major damage.
Post by
Gnub
If you're using the reasoning that because haste doesn't affect a cooldown of a spell it's useless, you still got a lot to learn. What you failed to include in your "analysis" above, was that with 10% haste you can start the rotation faster, as you would have shaved off some time from "the cooldown spell" and thus, an increase in DPS.
It makes the spell cast faster, which means a benefit in DPS - it's that simple. Sure, haste does less noticeable difference to the casttime, than it does to Lightning Bolt, but to compare, the same amount of spellpower adds more to Lightning Bolt than it does to Lava Burst as well.
Post by
binkenstein
You know, the GCD is in fact affected by Haste.
What should the GCD have to do with this?
Haste has almost no effect on your LvB. The GCD is irrelevant, it's about the spell cooldown. That isn't lowered by haste.
So haste increases your LB damage but almost leaves LvB damage unchanged.
It's very much like crit which also only helps your LB and does nothing for your LvB.
That's one of the main reasons why both haste and crit are inferior to spellpower.
Hey guys, do you know what time it is?
/facepalm
You're an idiot. The cooldown on any spell affects how frequently you can cast it. Haste affects how quickly you can cast a spell. Haste has as much of an affect on Lava Burst as any other instant or 1.5 second cast spell.
Post by
windstrum
Hey guys, do you know what time it is?
/facepalm
I lol'd at the office. That was inevitable.
Post by
Zakkhar
You're an idiot.
Wow, someone else noticed that?
I think he meant the fact that cd on LvB makes the shortening in GCD irrelevant.
Post by
binkenstein
You're an idiot.
Wow, someone else noticed that?
I think he meant the fact that cd on LvB makes the shortening in GCD irrelevant.
It's still irrelevant.
When considering Lava Bursts impact on the overall rotation, yes, you need to take the cooldown into account. However, when discussing how individual spells scale on various stats, you ignore the cooldown.
Post by
170445
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Post by
Glorfmorph
Im an elem shammy and in my guild im one of two, we both stack SP can normally get 4k easy, and as much as 6k dps. What im asking is: is haste better?
I ask because just yesterday i pugged 25 voa, and this other elem shammy was hitting 6k EASY, and he stacked haste, is haste really better than SP? im so confused.... i thought i knew my class...
if haste is better, plz link the gem/ enchants
me:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Mannoroth&n=Xarnzador
You have nearly full 232 Gear and still don't know that you don't have to have a Prismatic gem in a Prismatic slot?
/facepalm again.
And i thought us shammy's were more intelligent than the other classes /sadpanda.
Please, for the sake of all Shammykind, put a 23 SP gem in your waist = )
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