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Glyph of Consecration... redesign, please?
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Post by
ArgentSun
Consecration annoys me! Glyph of Consecration annoys me
more
. How many times have you dropped your almighty-paladin-AoE-we-get-so-praised-for, only to see the crowd of monsters run through two ticks, smiling and waving at you? Or, the not so bad case, the monster run through it, the second tick gets them in the last possible instant, so they go to the healer, remember than it is you who had hurt them, and then run back (or not run back, because the healer already has more aggro than your Consecration tick)?
Yea. I hate it. So here are a few suggestions how to improve that - those changes can come as Glyph or as a core change in the actual spell:
Reduce time between ticks.
Could be done by literally cutting the spell in half - it lasts 4 seconds, ticks every 0.5 seconds (for the same damage), and cost half the mana. Of course, this will be bad for our rotation. They could make the spell to still last 8 (or even better, 9) seconds, tick every 0.5 seconds, but each tick does half the damage. So instead of 8 ticks for 300 damage each, we have 16 ticks for 150 damage. I'd be happy this way too.
Add snare.
I would love a Glyph that looks something like "Your (initial tick of) Consecration spell reduces the movement speed of all targets in the affected area by 100%. The targets regain 33% (or 50% that's fine too) of their base speed every second). Basically something that stops everybody in the range of the spell as soon as we cast it (not 1 second later at the first tick!), and then allows them to rapidly regain their speed. 50% looks good to me (especially considering the nonsense DKs can do with Chains of Ice).
Instant damage + DoT.
I think this similar to the snare idea. The moment you hit the Consecration button, everybody in range gets hit for some base amount (I would love something like half of the total damage in the first instant), much like Holy Wrath, and then plant the normal Consecration on the ground (maybe with reduced damage per tick).
AoE aura.
This is the least likely case, even though I love its concept to death. You hit the Consecration, and it doesn't drop it on the ground - every second you just shoot Light to nearby enemies, doing as much damage per second, as the Consecration would do. The only difference - it moves with you.
The reason I thought about all this was because Warriors and Druids have instant AoE threat generators (Thunder Clap and Swipe), while we are left with our old poor Consecration. I guess Death Knights will need some instant AoE as well, but this thread is about paladins.
So what do you think? Not only about the specific suggestions, but about the instant-AoE-threat move - do we need it, or am I just being lazy/unable to play?
Post by
354963
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ArgentSun
Oh, I have it, and I usually do well. It's those very few moments when Consecration fails me that I get
really
irritated.
Post by
MischievousLoki
Yes, I find warrior and druid tanks FAR more suited to the arena portion of the Thorim fight (and some others).
All the while my druid friend keeps complaining that consecration is so great. :(
Consecration is great at keeping things on you, but it's usually obnoxious when it comes to picking things up. And we're losing one of my favorite methods of picking things up next patch (exorcism).
Frankly I don't like the idea of making it shorter, I like my stable rotation. But they could make it tick twice as fast at each tick dealing half damage and still have it last 8 seconds.
The snare option (even though it's a glyph) would be too impacting in pvp to ever make it into the game (which is a shame, because that'd be a great tool in PvE).
Post by
101561
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MischievousLoki
The reduced time between ticks and snare would be great, both PvP and PvE wise. The other too would most likely be too OP, unless it nerfed the overall damage somehow.
But i would like to remind you that Frost DKs have Howling Blast AND hungering cold, both similar to what your suggesting but more to each extreme. Unholy has Unholy swarm for your Aura idea. I don't think blood has anything. So there you have it, DKs beat you to the punch... garbage DKs... *grumbles under breath*
--Trevelyen
I've always considered Death and Decay to be a much more versatile (albeit, harder to keep up) version of Consecration. But, like you already said, DKs already have lots of other AoE options (except blood, but who tanks as blood?)
Post by
354963
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MischievousLoki
Edited my first post with changes. However, what would Ret Paladins use instead of Cons glyph? I tested the 3 different damage glyphs for Ret on the PTR, and I'm doing more damage with Exo/Judge glyphs. That may be because I use Cons sparsely, even in Exodar with 2 Level 80 dummies on the sides, I pull more DPS with Exo/Judge Glyphs than with a Cons substituted in.
Of course the consecration glyph doesn't increase your DPS. It's, by design, a mana conservation glyph.
Post by
ArgentSun
The snare option (even though it's a glyph) would be too impacting in pvp to ever make it into the game (which is a shame, because that'd be a great tool in PvE).
Which is partially the reason I made them the way I did. The snare effect would help Paladins, and especially Protection and Holy ones, to keep enemies nearby - it's effectively 1 second of no movement, and 1 second of slow. Enough to smack a Shield of Righteousness, Judgement and maybe something else (e.g. HotR for Prot, Holy Shock for Holy).
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I think you guys are missing the point of the glyph...It's one of the best prot pally lvling glyphs out there. Cons was my biggest mana drain while lvling and having it tick for 2 extra seconds w/o costing any extra mana was a life saver. This is probably the first time I have heard anyone complain about pally aoe threat. I say don't fix what ain't broke.
Post by
ArgentSun
I am complaining about the first 2 seconds of Paladin AoE threat. Not about it overall. I am quite happy with my threat after I've been able to cast 2-3 spells.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Also having a warrior tank, having to hold your Thunderclap for 2-3 seconds until all the adds are within 10 yrds isn't any easier.
To be fair, the 1 problem I do have, is having that first tick miss....if they took that away, I'd really have nothing more to complain about.
Post by
pezz
What do you pull with if you have problems with initial AoE threat? Unless I catch a patrol halfway through a different pull (which is supposed to be a difficult situation anyway) I never have problems with getting mobs from the start. AS + Hammer once they get close is usually plenty enough threat. If not we have an instant cast, off-the-GCD, sort-of-AoE taunt. Although I do love your idea of Consecration being an aura. Any time I have to move either a) my rotation gets messed up or b) I'm wasting a GCD and about 15% of my mana. It's such a simple fix, and I don't see why or where it would be imbalanced. Maybe in PvP when looking for stealthed enemies, but they could make mounting cancel it, and stealthed PvPers should already be thinking about staying a ways away from enemies moving at normal speed.
And to MischievousLoki: It saves you an extra GCD and a third, which might over the course of time marginally improve your DPS. I still vote that it's a pretty subpar glyph in end game, though.
Post by
ArgentSun
Ulduar is bloody full of monsters that like making their buddies immune to AoE damage (or all damage). That's where things don't work as well as I'd like them to.
Normal mob packs are fine - AS takes care of all of my needs. Thorim's Arena phase, Freya's packs of flowers (trash), and Hodir's patrols are mostly what makes me wish for an instant Consecration.
Post by
pezz
Ah right I see what you're talking about now. Yeah gimmick add fights like that do stretch my AoE spells a little thin.
Post by
Magnerz
Some neat, albeit possibly hasty by the looks of it, thought out ideas...
Giving cons a 100% snare effect would be the same as CoL, causing huge problems with pvp (maybe 95% to steal a change implemented by blizz) though even this seems a little extreme, its would be like dropping a frost trap at the same time as an instant, and a DoT effect. A moving Desecration powered up to old CoL levels, Unholy swarm thingy with an instant snap grab.... slightly OP'd to say the least in the realm of pvp (and PvE?).
I do however love the some parts of the ideas you mentioned. having it have an initial tick instantly like TC for example would be wicked, and not really screw up anything other than losing one tick if you drop it pre-pull, a worth trade-off imo. especially with a ret having to moniter for 4 sec CS's and exo proc's, a 4 second cons would be madness :)
Having it tick twice as often is also nice, but ithat halving the time would seriously mess up both prot and ret rotations to the point of tedium as opposed to challenge. The 50% less dmg per tick looks much better imho.
Lastly, you also have AS (3 target pick up), Hotr 3 target pick up ( you seen how far this baby actually bounces!) and 2x ranged taunts ( albeit only 1 of these is a "true" taunt ) in addition to your consecration ticks.
P.S. Less homogenising of classes please, bring the players, not the class i fully agree with, but tanks are becoming more and more alike... we have excellent frontloaded threat, awesome AoE tanking, and will get a huge buff if block becomes as viable as Blizz seems to want to make it with the huge BV changes. We can live without an insta AoE snap threat tool, though adding a tick to the start of consecrate and making said first tick be based off hit rather than spell hit would be immensly useful.
Post by
114144
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Quest
We have taunts, use them.
If anything Consecrate should provide a snare effect in the next few patches. PvP has been screaming for it and it would work well in PvE too. Thats the only practical thing I see happening.
Holy:
Consecrate does healing per tick for 8 seconds. You cannot damage with it (ater getting the talent for it)
Prot:
8 Second duration (prot rotations are perfectly fine dont &*!@ with it). Snare effect. Damage.
Ret:
16 second duration. Damage.
Major Glyph of Consecration:
Dots can now crit based on whatever crit is higher (spell/melee)
Post by
ArgentSun
I think you are overestimating the value of the snare I propose. I mean the spell to work like an inverse Curse of Agony - starts off strong, and then fades out. So your first tick will apply a 95% snare (and possibly high damage), your second tick will do only medium damage (and the target will already have regained 50% of its speed), and the 3rd+ tick will do relatively low damage (while the target is free of any snares).
Quest's idea is also nice though. Different Consecrations make me think a little about the Hunters and Death Knights and their "signature" moves deep on the talent trees (assuming BM ever gets its own).
Post by
Quest
I think you are overestimating the value of the snare I propose. I mean the spell to work like an inverse Curse of Agony - starts off strong, and then fades out. So your first tick will apply a 95% snare (and possibly high damage), your second tick will do only medium damage (and the target will already have regained 50% of its speed), and the 3rd+ tick will do relatively low damage (while the target is free of any snares).
Quest's idea is also nice though. Different Consecrations make me think a little about the Hunters and Death Knights and their "signature" moves deep on the talent trees (assuming BM ever gets its own).
If anything I think it would be more like the DK snare. Starts off 100% (will be 95%) and over 10 sec reduces 10%. Though if you think something like that is underpowered youre a madman. That would be way too powerful. Remember, this is an AoE skill! The snare should slow no more than ~50% PvE ~30% PvP. Maybe provite a debuff of a couple second duration for people/mobs that run off the effected area. Sort of an insurance that you wont get gyped too bad if they only catch the edge of a tick of damage.
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