Post by windstrum
Haste doesn't lower the GCD at the same rate as your spells.
Yes it does.
Let me clarify. The GCD can only be lowered to 1 second, but LHW can be lowered beyond that.
Haste can and will lower the cast time of LHW beyond the GCD.
If you have a Tidal Wave proc then haste will certainly lower LHW below the GCD.
This is exactly what I was talking about. Have you ever analysed your combat log to find how many LHW you cast outside of the Tidal Wave procs, compared to those cast with TW?
Edit: Regarding non-TW casts, you again seem to be doing a lot of tank healing.
This appears to be an assumption, as you seem to have no basis to make this conclusion and it is entirely incorrect.
I've asked you several times about whether or not you've run your HEP with no answer. I'm left to draw whatever conclusions I wish. If I'm incorrect and you're:
- Stacking Haste over Crit
- Using LHW more often outside of TW than inside
Then you're doing it wrong.
LHW is actually the number one spell to benefit from crit, and benefits the least (by far) from haste.
LHW is the number
three spell to benefit from crit. It shares all of its crit-based mechanics with HW and RT, except they have 100% IWS returns.
Poor choice of words on my part.
Let me break it down. We'll start with the Rank 5
Tidal Waves. For every Chain Heal or Riptide cast, you get 2 modified LHWs (or HWs). If you're casting LHW and HW
twice as often as both of these spells combined, haste is
still a wasted stat for the LHW portion. You need to cast it more than twice as often as both of Chain Heal and Riptide combined for haste to become useful beyond lowering the GCD.
Crit on the other hand procs
Ancestral Awakening - a free 30% heal, as well as
renegerates mana, and substantially boosts your
target's armor. See where I'm going?
I strongly urge you to try stacking Crit instead of Haste. When you think someone needs a Healing Wave, try a Chain Heal or LHW instead. Healing Wave just makes a good emergency heal when used every so often with Nature's Swiftness and not much else.
Post by 66520
Let me clarify. The GCD can only be lowered to 1 second, but LHW can be lowered beyond that.
By Tidal Waves. This is just you pointing out how fast you can cast LHW, not refuting the point that knocking up to .5 seconds off the GCD helps you cast spells faster since TW does not affect the GCD.
This is exactly what I was talking about. Have you ever analysed your combat log to find how many LHW you cast outside of the Tidal Wave procs, compared to those cast with TW?
In a fight that I'm spot healing around 40-50% of them. Again, you're not addressing the fact that haste will reduce the GCD even when LHW is below 1 sec cast time.
I've asked you several times about whether or not you've run your HEP with no answer.
You've asked me once. You've
told me to twice. I haven't because, frankly, I have no interest in downloading PERL just to crunch numbers that I believe I can evaluate better on a per-fight basis as I do not fill the same role or even wear the same gear in every encounter.
There are so many gimmicks in fights that the HEP could vary radically between any given attempt depending on what I'm doing that night or how many buffs I get.
Then you're doing it wrong.
I would like you to revisit my post on the first page of this thread and tell me why you appear to think that
- crit is better than spell power or haste for thorough-put
- crit as a mana regen stat is better than intellect (despite saying intellect is better in this thread)
- that Ancestral Fortitude up-time is unacceptably low at the ~30% crit achievable simply through talents and raid buffs.
Then tell me why you're actually stacking it.
We'll start with the Rank 5
Tidal Waves. For every Chain Heal or Riptide cast, you get 2 modified LHWs (or HWs). If you're casting LHW and HW
twice as often as both of these spells combined, haste is
still a wasted stat for the LHW portion. You need to cast it more than twice as often as both of Chain Heal and Riptide combined for haste to become useful beyond lowering the GCD.
Right, but if you're not stacking haste then Chain Heal is a worthless cast. It is inarguable that someone would include a Chain Heal that wasn't necessary just to obtain TW procs for LHW, it is just incredibly mana inefficient and consumes
more time than it actually
saves.
If you have no haste at all then the TW buff is almost entirely wasted on LHW as you will still be casting every 1.5 secs, regardless of when the LHW goes off. With 2t8 doing spot healing you will be casting ~1 non-TW LHW between TW procs, without ~2.
(Chain casting you will see 3-4 times as many LHWs as Riptides unless you stack haste so that you can get TW from CH, and you seem to have established that stacking haste is wrong.)
BTW, just to bring you up to speed, my argument is that you want haste to lower the GCD for LHW.
Crit on the other hand procs
Ancestral Awakening - a free 30% heal, as well as
renegerates mana, and substantially boosts your
target's armor. See where I'm going?
Ancestral Awakening is useful in that it's free. It's not amazing. As I said previously, the majority of the time it either overheals because everyone is at or near full or it engenders overhealing because of the delay. The situations in which those extra heals matter are the ones where you can't wait to see if your heal crit before beginning a heal on the next lowest person - the very person that AA will then try to heal.
MANA REFUNDS ARE NOT MANA REGEN. They are expressible as such for convenience sake but they are not the same. In addition, this mana refund costs you GCDs, an inconvenience and penalty only reducible by
haste.
Again, AF has a more than adequate uptime at crit levels achievable simply through talents. It is also not a unique buff and does not stack.
I strongly urge you to try stacking Crit instead of Haste. When you think someone needs a Healing Wave, try a Chain Heal or LHW instead. Healing Wave just makes a good emergency heal when used every so often with Nature's Swiftness and not much else.
I'm just quoting this so someone else can read it. I'm not going to respond to your suggestion that Chain Heal is actually a viable cast at haste levels below 500.
Post by windstrum
Ghostlight I'm not going to quote everything you said, but I'll try and address as much of it as I can.
Regarding TW, LHW and the GCD: Yes, I know that haste is beneficial to reducing the GCD. I've lost count now how many times I've said that haste isn't totally worthless. My point is that crit is more important. That's all. Most of the mail caster gear has haste instead of crit. You don't need to gem haste with that much of it already there. There's a point (and its not all that high) when haste becomes quite a bit less beneficial.
Regarding HEP: If you haven't run your own HEP, where are your stat values coming from exactly? How do you know that haste is better than crit for your style of healing? I'm sorry, but I choose to go by my own hard numbers and the numbers of dozens of others. I'll also add that there are ways to work out your HEP on a per-fight basis. It's far more accurate than any kind of random guesswork I could muster up.
A few other things:
- I don't expect anyone to 'wait' for a crit before casting something else. That's why you would add more crit, so that you get to a stage when you can, to a degree, rely on it
- Mana regeneration is not exactly the same as mana refunds because it costs GCDs, if you're only casting it in order to return mana. There's nothing 'addtional' about this, that's the only difference. The magic of mana refunds is that you don't have to think about it, just heal as you normally would, and mana will be refunded to you, more often with more crit. And there are plenty of left over GCDs to refresh water shield, unless you're trying to top meters.
- Chain Heal is more than viable below 500 haste, particularly with a high crit rating
Lastly:
I would like you to revisit my post on the first page of this thread and tell me why you appear to think that
- crit is better than spell power or haste for thorough-put
- crit as a mana regen stat is better than intellect (despite saying intellect is better in this thread)
- that Ancestral Fortitude up-time is unacceptably low at the ~30% crit achievable simply through talents and raid buffs.
Then tell me why you're actually stacking it.
You've got to be kidding me, right? My first damn post in this thread, after which I accepted that Spell power doesn't really need to be gemmed for, was:
Spell power > Intellect > Mp5 > Crit > Haste.
And when did I say that Ancestral Fortitude's 30% uptime was unacceptable? Please, stop being so damn dramatic. It's one single benefit to having more crit amongst many, not the be-all and end-all reason. More uptime isn't a negative, its not even a neutral. It's a positive, so its a reason why crit is beneficial, that's all.
Edit: spelling.