This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Classic Theme
Thottbot Theme
Frost DPSers in 3.2? what will YOU do?
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
295513
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Everborne
Personally I'm going to try out DW frost for DPS (currently using Blood DPS), but I'm not 80 yet, so that may not carry much weight here.
Although, I am curious about the IT machine gun spec, even though it may soon become obsolete. What is the spec and rotation?
Post by
Eleazer
There is a thread for 3.2 proposed builds and discussion. These questions have been covered there. IT Machine gun and HB Single disease specs are both dead. 2H frost is completely gone. Blood remains the same, and Unholy has some very minor changes. Frost strike avoidance is pvp and you should be expertise capped and so have no worries about Frost strike dodges.
Post by
295513
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Eleazer
I know, Jim and I understand your point. However all signs point to an end of frost 2h dps. 2h blood and unholy are alive and well but sadly 2h frost is gone. Almost every 2h frost dk who has gone on the PTR has come back severly disappointed and under the realization that frost is DW now. If you want to go 2h you will have to go blood and unholy. Frost DW is effective, but will essentially be the only build for frost DPS, just as DW is now the only effective pve dps for enhance shamans.
Post by
295513
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Bllets
I've gone blood already. :)
Post by
226700
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
cakeknight
I really don't understand this whole idea that one deep frost talent instantly means frost 2h is dead. If some one wants to go frost 2h nothing should be any different for them than they are now. Threat of Thassarian will not kill 2h dps, it will only make DW viable. Blizzard has said time and time again, that the way they are designing the death knight, is to be a massive 2h weapon fighter, but that they want DW to be possible, but not to over shadow 2h
a quote from the Death knight under development Q&A
Death Knight Q&A
How do we feel about the current viability of dual-wielding? Are there plans to improve it or have it fit a specific role for the class?
Ghostcrawler: This is a controversial topic because we realize some players just aren’t interested in dual-wielding (or seeing any death knights even do it), while others love the faster strikes that come with it. Our design has always been that dual-wielding should be an option, but that also means that it can’t take over, as it often does for classes in which we provide the option.
Part of our goal with the death knight was not to have a tanking or PvP tree, and we feel we’ve been pretty successful with that. However, adding dual-wield to that matrix just gives us an impossible task, because then you need to have the Blood dual-wield tank spec and the Frost two-hander PvP spec and so on.
What we are going to do with dual-wield in 3.2 is just provide the Frost tree with the talents necessary to prop-up dual wielding, including a new talent that lets Frost Strike, Death Strike, Obliterate etc. hit with both weapons. This will likely mean that Blood and Unholy dual-wield specs just won’t work anymore. It also carries the risk that all Frost death knights feel like they have to go dual-wield. This latter part isn’t necessarily a goal, but could be the outcome. We think in this case our only option is to remove some player choice in order to provide a real choice in other areas.
this is from the third question
Post by
Eleazer
2hand frost is not dead. 2H Frost dps is dead. You can still tank 2h frost, but dpsing as 2h frost is significantly behind DW frost. For several reasons that have already been lifted. Now read that Last three sentence that he stated I will bold them so you don't miss it.
It also carries the risk that all Frost death knights feel like they have to go dual-wield. This latter part isn’t necessarily a goal, but could be the outcome. We think in this case our only option is to remove some player choice in order to provide a real choice in other areas.
You see he realizes that the death of Frost 2h may come so the player choice is eliminated for frost dps. DW will be frost and 2h will be unholy and blood.
Those are your options. They may not be the ones you wante, but that is the fact of the matter. DW scales much much better in the current frost set up. In fact it seems there is a new frost build that is now the top dps DW frost. I will post it in the other thread
Post by
cakeknight
no where in that quote did Ghostcrawler actually say DW dps will be better, he said that people will thuink they have to go DW, most likely because they see it is a deep talent point which makes people think, hey it must be good. Using Threat of Thassarian at full, will let a dps hit with two oblits in one strike, but, the first will be substantialy weeker than a 2h oblit, and the second will, if i remember correctly which I may not, be 50% damage of the first, together, they might be equal to one oblit from a 2h dpser.
I'm not trying to say DW will be useless, I think that people will flock to it because its new and because they'll get free respecs, but most people will not know what they are doing and will lower their dps and continue to make a bad name for death knights. Of course there will be people who know what they are doing and manage to get super dps out of DW, but a well speced, intelligent frost DW will probably end up doing equal, maybe higher, dps than an intelligent , well speced, 2h frost dpser.
Post by
142889
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Eleazer
The problem is it's not equal anymore. DW frost in live testing and simulations is significantly higher than 2h frost. You are seeing only what you want, but I will tell you what I told Lynri. I am a huge fan of 2h Frost dps. It is without a doubt my favorite dps spec. I went into the PTR testing to prove you could still 2H dps, and walked away knowing I was wrong. DW is not just higher it's significantly higher we are talking close to 1k dps more.
It's not just that you get 2 individual hits that will equal out to one 2 hand it. and the Offhand is 65 percent of the Main hand not 50 percent, but the sigils as well favor DW so the Sigil of Awareness which had 336 Obliterate so for a DW that's 672 Obliterate increase.
The nerfing of the sigil from .Ulduar Frost Strike damage was cut in half this favors DW.
Independent crit rates will equal a higher hit than one 2h crit.
The FS nerf favors DW over 2h.
The new tier gear.
Dual disease and reapplication of that disease.
You are also forgetting that you get to dual runeforge your weapon. You get the FC runeforge that you currently have plus RI which is 10 percent addition to all frost damage (FS/IT/FF/HB).
All those factors favor DW over 2H we can continue to go on when talking about weapon damage scaling and so on. What the Q&A stated was that it could be the outcome, and it is the outcome. Regardless of what you want it to be. If you don't believe me go on the ptr and test it yourself.
Post by
cakeknight
ok I admit that I completely forgot about dual runes, yeah with dual FC that would seriously increase dps if they both proced. And yet again I wasn't thinking of specific gear like the sigil of awareness, that would out preform a 2h oblit. well I must confess that it looks like frost DW will take the day, just seems like it will be really gear dependent, I still hope like wolfxiii that 2h will make a come back. plus I would like to say that it is the ptr so things can always change, and knowing blizzard I'm willing to bet they have a finger hovering over the nerf button on this, but that's probably true on everything.
Post by
142889
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
378676
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
cakeknight
17%? thats for spells isn't it? I know with 2h you need 8% and obviously with DW you need more, but is 17% the DW hit cap?
Post by
sushigaski
I haven't crunched any numbers, but I think DW may still be better in PVP... I'd think that two top-end one handers combined will still equal or be better than a two-hander's strike, and single auto-hit shouldn't matter either way.
Post by
Eleazer
Hit rating will be much higher need the goal will be 17 percent, however I don't know for sure. PVP wise - I have no idea. I dont' really pvp. I dont' see any need to go DW for pvp though. Alot of your pvp talents will work better if specced 2h you can get more stam/avoidance and pvp talents by speccing 2h wielding.
Dual FC is a no-no as FC doesnt' double proc. FC/RI is the king of DW nothing else is close, well FC/FC is close, but FC/RI surpasses it on all bosses FC/FC is equal or better on trash. The way dual FC works is it simply reapplies FC so that your downtime is more like 20 percent without FC as opposed to the 40 percent we see now in 2h.
I think Strength will still be the way to gem, but I could see alot more hit gear being taken as well as ArP getting a higher value since our biggest attack is now Obliterate. I am probably going to gem Strength, kind of like i did with my shaman in BC. Enchant hit, gem strength as much as possible and work towards the 17 percent spell hit without giving up too much.
Post by
neomasterc
ok I admit that I completely forgot about dual runes, yeah with dual FC that would seriously increase dps if they both proced.
currently the best combo is FC/RI. due to the fact that 2 FC would "waste" alot of the the procs and procs dont stack.
numbers and tests can be found on EJ forums
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.