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Focus Magic and You
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Post by
236394
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
328067
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Ethix
Both of them get about the same bonus from crits.
Holy gets free flash of light procs, and disc gets divine aegis and more mana returns.
Post by
236394
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Paolo
Most disc priests will have more crit than most holy priests, who gear more aggressively for spirit and haste. However, holies have
this
. Disc spells are almost all single target heals (except PoM and PoH), so even if the disc priest has 10% more crit, they may not be the right recipient if you have a raid-healing holy priest around.
Post by
Aldones
Go with holy, when it comes down to it, they cast more spells via AoE healing, thus better chance for it to proc for the mage.
Post by
karlusdavius
depends on the fight.
If there is a lot of aoe going round, Holy, If its mainly single target damage, disc
Post by
OscarDivine
I don't think I'm allowed to chime in here... ;-) I was part of the original discussion in the mage forum. haha.
Post by
Zhivago
You are all wrong. Give it to the Shadow Priest. >:}
Post by
236394
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
OscarDivine
Alrighty then since you say so. Here's an excerpt from my previous post on the mage forums:
So let's take 12 seconds worth of fighting time and estimate how many spell hits I could get that have a potential to crit.
CoH - 6 chances
1.5 GCD
Flash Heal 1.5 sec Cast time - 1 chance
Flash Heal 1.5 sec Cast time - 1 chance
PoH 2.5 sec Cast time - 5 chances
CoH - 6 chances
Flash from surge of light - 0 chance
Flash - 1 chance
GHeal 2.2 sec Cast time - 1 chance
CoH - 6 chances
Spell hits total: 27 spell hits total. I don't think any other class can do that.
Can someone do that for a Disco priest because I'm not too familiar with what you all might just be using for rotations since I've been playing Holy for ages.
Post by
Blarnay
While disc generally has higher crit holy is probably the best target for your focus magic. One thing that hasn't been brought up is that each tick of penance (3 ticks) has a chance to crit, with my crit rating that's about a 89%~ chance to proc focus magic. However if I were holy I'd almost nearly have a 99%~ chance to proc for each CoH.
Post by
eMoon
Crit rating is more important for disc than holy.Consider too that holy is casting less,because his job is staying out of 5 sec rule,and also using big heal to help that,while disc is casting more and gaining mana from spamming.If you want more procs,buff some crit focusing DPS,because they cast (almost) always
Post by
OscarDivine
Crit rating is more important for disc than holy.Consider too that holy is casting less,because his job is staying out of 5 sec rule,and also using big heal to help that,while disc is casting more and gaining mana from spamming.If you want more procs,buff some crit focusing DPS,because they cast (almost) always
While that's partially true (at least for the moment), realistically escaping the 5 second rule doesn't mean that I stop casting. I make use of clear casts and Inner focus and get smart about using my 5SR to get a tick here and there. It's not like I'm spending 10 or 15 seconds just standing around.
Even still, if I'm just spamming spells I usually don't run out of mana regardless. It's rare for me to actually OOM except during maybe malygos where I'm TRYING to burn off all my mana during the end of P2.
I'm still hoping that someone will put up a time scale of how disco priests work... if not, I'll do it and probably make errors. ;-)
Post by
Paolo
I haven't read the thread on the mage forum. But here goes nothing.
First, Oscar's estimate of holy crit chances is more of a maximum than a realistic or average assessment. Which is fine, we'll adjust in a second. But for comparative purposes a disc priest will probably hit a maximum of 19 times. This is a shot in the dark, total ballpark, aiming at a slightly high estimate, but bear with me as I show how irrelevant it is :)
Penance (3)
Shield (0)
Flash (1)
PoM (6)
Flash (1)
Shield (0)
Penance (3)
PoH (5)
A little math here. With
N
chances to crit and
P
chance of critting, the overall chance of landing at least one crit is
Chance to crit at least once = 1 - ((1-
P
) ^
N
)
Briefly, that's saying you have 1-P chance to NOT crit on any single cast, and (1-P)^N chance to not crit N times in a row. And 1 - (that) is your chance to crit at least once in those N casts.
Ok, for Oscar's estimate of a holy priest, we have N = 28, and let's give a holy priest about 25% crit chance raid buffed, up to 28% with focus magic. So Oscar's chance to crit at least once in his 12-second window is
0.9998
.
Now poor me, Disco Paolo over here, doesn't have much AoE to speak of. I snuck in a PoM and a PoH just to compete. But my raid-buffed crit rate is closer to 38%, sometimes 40% depending on my gear selection. So let's say 41% with the focus magic buff. That puts my chance to crit at least once in that 12-second window at
0.9999
.
Some more examples:
Disc (N=10, P=0.38) => 0.991
Disc (N=12, P=0.35) => 0.994
Holy (N=18, P=0.25) => 0.994
Holy (N=16, P=0.25) => 0.989
Mage (N=8, P=0.55) => 0.998
Lol I snuck in a mage just for fun. Their raid-buffed crit is often as high as 55% (factoring in
debuffs
that healers don't benefit from). So even if they're single-target only, their chance to crit in our 12-second window is still crazy high.
Oh and in terms of 28 chances to crit for a holy priest, I do think the % time inside-5sr is very relevant. The "N" in my formula above would scale down by 60% or whatever your time inside 5 is, adjusted for smart use of inner focus & clearcasting. Disc priests will scale down by less, as we're usually inside 5 about 75% or more of the time. But even so, we'd still be talking about nearly total uptime for both specs.
Bottom line? Looks like a total wash to me. Differences of tenths of a percent are lost in the messiness of an actual boss fight, with movement, lag, all that stuff.
Post by
OscarDivine
I had a feeling that was going to be the case. Great job on the estimate Paolo!
Moral of the story: There's virtually a 100% chance that giving a priest your Focus Magic will allow you (as a mage) to continue your own Focus Magic Buff constantly through a raid.
Post by
Xuxa
The determining factor here is the fight itself.
Are the casters spamming dps the entire time, just give it to them. You will have your buff up all the time, and help theirs too.
If there is lots of moving, periods of no dps, but lots of damage (aka healers spamming) just give it to a healer.
Post by
razzem
However, Paolo calculates PoM as 6 chances... which may or may not be true. Additionally, PoM was NOT calculated for Holy as 6 chances, but it could/should be done as well. Therefore, Holy still comes out ahead when PoM is factored.
Holy > Disc for Focus Magic. Just way too many proc chances vs Disc.
Post by
Paolo
However, Paolo calculates PoM as 6 chances... which may or may not be true.
I was assuming the
T7 set bonus
, and you're right, that may or may not be true. Oscar did not include PoM in his estimation. Either way, my calculations washed away that extra proc chance.
...Holy still comes out ahead when PoM is factored.
Holy > Disc for Focus Magic. Just way too many proc chances vs Disc.
I think you forgot to read my post, as did Xuxa :) My conclusions were based on math that looked deeper than just the number of proc chances. Admittedly I could use help in the math department, but you'll need to provide more than this. I recommend creating a 3-cell spreadsheet with the original formula I gave, 1 - ((1-P) ^ N), and plug in some reasonable numbers. See if there's any set of values for a geared holy or disc priest that goes below 99% uptime in the 12-second window that Oscar originally proposed.
Post by
OscarDivine
Yeah I didn't factor in a PoM because it's just too unpredictable. But sure I suppose you can add in a fraction of a percentage for it being there.
The moral of the story still remains the same. Both Holy and Disco priests reach an asymptotically close value for which Focus magic can be used.
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