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Flag taking in WSG - optimal party?
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Post by
Squishalot
So, it being Warsong Gulch's holiday, a restro druid and I went into the BG and figured we'd go flag capping. I spec'd prot, and off we went.
As we rushed the flag, it so happened that the other guys in our party wanted to do the same, and were geared to do it. We had two prot pallies, a holy pally, a resto druid and a disc priest. The other prot took the flag and we all started running.
On hitting the first set of horde, the flag carrier had a full stack of Lifeblooms, Power Word: Shield, and three Sacred Shields on top of him, as well as Blessings of Might, Kings and Sanctuary, Gift of the Wild, and the priest Stamina buff. And Improved Devotion/Concentration and Retribution auras. The only thing we didn't do to make things better was to buff a glyphed Hand of Salvation on him. He had a Beacon on him too, but it was moreorless a waste of time - I don't think he took a scratch.
With 10 guys on defence, and the 4-5 of us running flags back and forth (holy pally switched to defence when he realised he wasn't needed), the BG was over in less than 10 minutes.
Do you guys think that there's a stronger party (read: no more than 5) combination for flag capture?
Post by
Dunsinane
With 10 guys on defence, and the 4-5 of us running flags back and forth (holy pally switched to defence when he realised he wasn't needed), the BG was over in less than 10 minutes.
Do you guys think that there's a stronger party (read: no more than 5) combination for flag capture?
I think having 15 people on your side of a 10-man team BG is advantage enough with any non-idiotic flag running combination. ;-)
Post by
Squishalot
I think having 15 people on your side of a 10-man team BG is advantage enough with any non-idiotic flag running combination. ;-)
Oops, for some reason, I thought it was a 15 man BG too..... xD
My bad, 5-6 guys on defence then :P
Edit: Having said that, a 5 man advantage in WSG probably wouldn't be enough to save some of the BG groups I've been in :P
Post by
svirve
It really depends on your opposition.
And if you manage to get that many healers in your BG you're going to win anyways.
Doesn't matter if you have a mage carrying the flag or what not.
I would think an optimal flag running combination would be:
Bear tank
Holy pally (51/20/0)
Disc priest
Tree druid
Bear tank because of their incredible mobility and being able to self heal etc...
Then you have six people to go hunt the other flag and the four of you are going to be more than able to carry it to hell and back.
Even if the flag hunters are having a hard time getting down the EFC you should be able to spare 1 healer to go help them.
But the setup you had running isn't a bad one either. Anything with alot of healers and a tank is a good setup :)
Post by
257031
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
wolfel
my thoughts would be:
FC: bear druid because of good armor health, self heals and can shift forms too get rid of movement impairing effects.
healer 1: priest because of the ability too put shields as well as good healing and AOE fear.
healer 2: shaman or druid: shaman because: totems can help slow down people chasing as well as chain heals and such or druid: very good HOT's and roots plus instant moonfire.
DPS (too kill people chasing the flag or just slow /stun them)
retribution paladin:fast burst damage too take down a person chasing the flag and protect the healers and flag as well as good cc and heals if need be
rogue/frost mage:rogue because nice stunlocks and burst damage and frost mage: because of really good AOE cc and very good slows as well as awesome burst damage capabilties because they can nuke down chasers of the flag because people won't be attacking them.
thats just my thoughts.
Post by
svirve
Ok since this is turning in to a 8 man flag carrying team im gonna add my view on the sillyness as well.
Flag team:
3 Trees, 1 Disc priest, 2 Resto shaman, 3 Holy paladins.
And the FC is an arms warrior.
Now the whole team is invulnerable and they can go as a team and get the other flag back.
Post by
207630
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
Ok since this is turning in to a 8 man flag carrying team im gonna add my view on the sillyness as well.
Flag team:
3 Trees, 1 Disc priest, 2 Resto shaman, 3 Holy paladins.
And the FC is an arms warrior.
Now the whole team is invulnerable and they can go as a team and get the other flag back.
Nope, the bear tank as FC is still probably a better choice - for the mobility advised earlier, and because they can still self-heal as well! Or prot pally, for the extra sacred shield and bubblewalls...
Actually, on that note, I'm pretty sure that Divine Shield causes a flag drop, but what about Divine Protection and Hand of Protection? Does anyone know?
Post by
207630
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
Yeah, immunity effects, sure. But even if it doesn't provide complete immunity?
For example, that would suggest that Divine Protection is ok - because it's only 50% damage reduc. HoP is a bit more contentious - it's immunity to physical attacks only, so spells are still fine (I discovered the fine print the hard way once). But it *is* technically immunity (i.e. when struck by a physical attack, it will pop up "Immune"), so I suppose it would count.
Post by
svirve
HoP makes you drop the flag.
Divine protection doesnt since it's a shield wall.
With a team of 9 healers and 1 FC it doesnt really matter what carries the flag i took an arms warrior since they can put out some damage against the other team leaving them a chance at winning. Plus he wont get 1-shotted when the FC's get 100% increased damage taken.
Post by
GenXCub
Don't discount an Elemental Shaman.
Remember, they had a talent change so that every time an earthbind totem gets dropped (only on 15 sec cooldown), everyone in range gets rooted for 5 seconds. It works great in BG's.
Post by
svirve
Yea but we're talking an optimal group here.
Atleast i interpret it as the whole BG should be optimal.
Thus my point about this turning into silly brain matter all over the screen when people started posting setups of 7-8 people.
If the group is bigger than 4-5 it's not optimal. Then the others in your group are most probably going to have troubles getting your flag back.
Post by
Squishalot
5 people on flag attack, and a multi-boxing shaman on defence?
Though I actually think that a bunch of Prot pallies would work well on flag defence - 20 second stuns, Avenging Shield for silence/daze effects on multiple attackers, self-healing (maybe one prot pally decked out in holy gear for healing purposes). Shadow/Frost/Fire resistance auras to reduce effectiveness of CC effects, plus Cleanse and HoF, if they're paying enough attention to each other.
The only thing you're really missing is ranged attacks - you could get a Destro warlock for that purpose, I suppose? Or just non-stop Fear...
Post by
svirve
Or 5 rogues on defense oO
Mass-sap then just ambush the one that is left and make sure he bleeeeeeeeeeeds!
Post by
Squishalot
*shudders*
That would actually be harder than it sounds though. Sap still requires a fair bit of positioning to make it work, and isn't as well suited to running around in a BG environment.
It's also unlikely to be able to take out all of the other flag attackers. You might be able to get one more by vanishing and repeating, but then you'd be on cooldown and not nearly as effective.
Besides, 5 rogues vs our 'optimal' FC party - how would that work?
5 anythings would work pretty well, for a short while, but I think that the disadvantages would be exploited fairly quickly once the opposition cottoned on.
Post by
svirve
Talented sap is on a 13 yard range.
And say 8 attackers in our flag room.
Say 3 out of the rogues are able to get their sap in.
1 of the attackers dies instantly.
a 2nd one will die very shortly after since the rogues will quickly switch focus.
That leaves 3 attackers still able to fight and 3 that will be ready in ~5 seconds.
5 rogues shouldn't have much trouble handling that with blinds, vanish, gouge.
As long as they're able to focus their fire on one or at most two targets at a time.
And if the other team is able to get the flag just have the 5 rogues stealth into their base and all ambush the FC at the same time and he'll be dead in a matter of seconds :)
That would be the biggest advantage of having the rest of the group consist of rogues. They're able to sneak up on the EFC without being noticed and with a bit of coordination take it out.
If exectued properly 5 of anything as you said will work pretty well until the other team is smart enough (if they are) to figure out a counter tactic.
I'd say that the FC team of 4 people alone is enough to win a WSG.
The rest of the BG group can just zerg whatever they want they'll get the flag back eventually.
Post by
ironblades
druid in tank gear is definaitly the best, when try to get clear cat (still at 27k hp) form sprint, travel from, both allows you to out run other people, when you get bogged down in a mob you can use bear form, frenzied regen and survival instincs, also cat form has track humnoids making easier to avoid packs, prot pallies can be pretty scary but they don't have the speed boosts
for other party members
1 healer priest or druid
1 hunter for traps and other fun stuff
1 mage frost
1 balance druid they can keep up to druid fc, they can off heal, aoe slow i belive if you glyphh hurcaine, and monsoon that pushes people off of flag carrier.
Post by
368410
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