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Feral PvP in 3.2....
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Post by
368348
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178837
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Post by
Evergreen
Not really got much to say here except that this has been a good read. You guys know what you're talking about and i reckon i learnt some things.
+1, insightfull
Post by
curlymon
Nurturing Instincs are and have always been a complete and utter joke, as a hybrid class go we druids have gotten the short stick in terms of mana-to-heals ratio, the only healing spell that does any kind of serious heals is tranquility.. and that´s a channeled spell that consumes half our manapools forchristsakes!
I am filled with bitterness every time I get a 11k healing crit on my Ret, for my Druid is my pride and joy and I really resent that I have to spend my ENTIRE manapool to top myself up after a close fight. And who hasn´t had the joy of trying to moonfire spam some berk down after he´s CCed you and ran.. only wo watch him cling to his last 1% of life while you spend your mana in pure utter futility even to the point where you can no longer afford to re-enter your form. *sigh*
We only have about 6k in our respective manapools, why would it be so OP to give us the ability to heal for more than the waste-of-mana chump-change-bits we do now. 70% of our agi is simply not enough.. it used to be 100% back in the day and it STILL sucked. And would it really be OP to give us real spellpower instead of just healing power? We are a HYBRID class, time we should get to enjoy the benefits of our little blue bar. As it is.. it hardly figues into any equations.
Back in the day 100% of agi was surprisingly powerful if you analyzed your gear correctly... I used to heal in raids as feral by just swapping flasks and bringing a bunch of mana pots along. 70% curbed that... It was startlingly powerful back then... It's not a bad talent to take especially if you are planning on attempting hardmodes for the same reason alot of mages move over to arcane spec.. survivability. And in PvP the heals you give out from this is not the point it's the heals received...
Edit: Just for clarity it has NO PLACE in a pure PvE cat dps build, the points are better spent elsewhere. But on hardmode fights (HM Mimron for example) It can be the VERY usful to take if you feel the need to spec for a single fight.
Post by
Kaitain
To start at the end, NI is a great talent to have in terms of received heals, as Curly says. Ask a healer if 20% more to their heals is worth 2 talent points.
Back at 70 it was a great talent. I remember having 1350 or so +healing
with weapon mace equipped
in full feral PvP gear. Restos at the time had about 1900-2000 in full PvP gear.
As far as i remember the 70% was a buff not a nerf, because they changed it to 70% when they altered all our healing spells to work with the spell power system, so 100% pre-SP was less than 70% post-SP.
It's important to understand that (in PvP at least) there are a few things you need to make the most of this talent.
You need
It helps a lot to have a good healing weapon. You need kiting skills, you are not supposed to heal through any damage as it comes in with this talent, you should escape the damage source and cast in safety. You then need to go cat immediately afterwards so that the full set of HoTs you just cast on yourself ticks while you are in cat form. That 20% makes up for a lot of spell power. You then need to get back into combat asap to get your mana back.
My experience of the talent was a long long time spent in BGs at 70, when it was amazing used right. I can't comment on how good it was in arena back then, but the only high rated feral i knew of (Deep) used it with his Rogue/Feral comp.
I can't comment on how good it is at 80, but just from how it still reads on paper I'm pretty sure if i went to do some feral PvP i would (a) play with a healer (b) get NI.
Edit: Just for clarity it has NO PLACE in a pure PvE cat dps build, the points are better spent elsewhere. But on hardmode fights (HM Mimron for example) It can be the VERY usful to take if you feel the need to spec for a single fight.
Exactly :-)
Post by
Lightrain
Well, as far as healing myself goes, I don't bother swapping weaps, and throw a rejuve>LB>regrowth>LBx2 stack and go cat for a restealth. That will pretty much top me off at 1/4 hp.
However, feral HoT's will not out heal incoming dps. Spamming nourish with innervate up is the only way to get burst heals out other than tranq.
I'll be interested to see how this new 5cp insta cast nature spell pans out. IDK if we have to cast it on the target we acquired points on, or if we can cast it on his partner as well, or if it uses up our cp's. This is going to determine a lot of feral annoyance in pvp. Personally, I think it should be like Maelstrom, and not using CP's. It would be even better if it left us in form! Kitties coughing out hairballs(wrath) would be awesome!
Post by
Kaitain
It would be even better if it left us in form! Kitties coughing out hairballs(wrath) would be awesome!
ye. would go from debatable to pure win if you stayed in form. Imagine also a cat cycloning someone while hitting someone else :-) Instant Rebirth in BGs would be funny too.
IDK if we have to cast it on the target we acquired points on, or if we can cast it on his partner as well, or if it uses up our cp's.
I doubt it would need to be cast on the cp target. The spells you would casts have nothing to do with the cps system, and most options are heals on friendly targets.
It would not consume any cp points to use because you just burnt them with a finishing move to trigger the proc. You would always have no cps after getting it ofc.
Post by
curlymon
As far as i remember the 70% was a buff not a nerf, because they changed it to 70% when they altered all our healing spells to work with the spell power system, so 100% pre-SP was less than 70% post-SP.
Yeah I was thinking about what I typed and it did not make sense :P I believe I dropped NI because I no longer had moved past the 2t5 feral bonus and as I primarily tanked at the time it was not worth keeping for me.
As far as locking us in form.. I don't think that will be a problem. Just hink charge up 5 CP's on a target then going bear due to focus. Get some range swap back and fire of an SR and cyclone the buddy then charge back in.
Post by
Lightrain
IDK if we have to cast it on the target we acquired points on, or if we can cast it on his partner as well, or if it uses up our cp's.
I doubt it would need to be cast on the cp target. The spells you would casts have nothing to do with the cps system, and most options are heals on friendly targets.
It would not consume any cp points to use because you just burnt them with a finishing move to trigger the proc. You would always have no cps after getting it ofc.
Ah, I read it wrong. I thought it was a 20% per CP to be used. Not 20% per CP after using a finisher. I was distracted when I read it, getting a link in skype while fighting 4 horde and trying to defend a flag.... That's why I'm not on here in the evenings and weekends, lol.
Feral Combat
Predatory Strikes: This talent now also causes the druid’s finishing moves to provide a 7/13/20% chance per combo point to make the next Nature spell with a cast time below 10 seconds instant cast.
For those that haven't seen it yet.
Post by
Lightrain
I'm intrigued as well, as to whether we might see some more resto/charge druids in 2's after 3.2. Would be interesting to see. Run an opener, bleed him with rip using a feral staff or use a maim, instant cyclone him or his partner, use FC for interupts. Could be a fun way to play resto with that proc.
Post by
Kaitain
Could be damn good for target switches also...
Burn 5cps on a Ferocious Bite (not Rip or SR) then immediate cyclone that target on low HP, switch and start on the other guy, nuke nuke nuke switch back to the first guy, and the other healer is faced with him and his partner on medium low HP. Mmmmm.... pressure :-) Basically just a great way to follow a fat finisher with 6 secs of Heal-Lockout on your target. Even if not switching you get your energy up or even re-stealth for the pounce if not dotted.
Starting to sound like a fun talent actually :-)
Post by
Lightrain
Could be damn good for target switches also...
Burn 5cps on a Ferocious Bite (not Rip or SR) then immediate cyclone that target on low HP, switch and start on the other guy, nuke nuke nuke switch back to the first guy, and the other healer is faced with him and his partner on medium low HP. Mmmmm.... pressure :-) Basically just a great way to follow a fat finisher with 6 secs of Heal-Lockout on your target. Even if not switching you get your energy up or even re-stealth for the pounce if not dotted.
Starting to sound like a fun talent actually :-)
This is actually what I've been forced to do to stay remotely competitive in 2's, without an instant cast. The other advantage to this, is you can stick on a druid in druid/warrior comp, then blow a cyclone or root on the warrior every finisher. That sounds like a load of fun. For me..... =)
Would work great on pressuring priest/rogue as well. In 3's, my main issue is if I'm getting focused by a good rogue, he saves his stun for when I try to cyclone, then I'm screwed and they finish me off while stuck in human, stunned, with zero defenses.
Post by
297395
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Post by
Kaitain
Would work great on pressuring priest/rogue as well. In 3's, my main issue is if I'm getting focused by a good rogue, he saves his stun for when I try to cyclone, then I'm screwed and they finish me off while stuck in human, stunned, with zero defenses.
The trick will be to make DAMN sure that cyclone sticks. Hit rating is presumably covered on feral gear (think you would need 157 ish to cover 4% plus 2% miss racials many classes have)... but spell pen? I can see MotW resulting in some ganked ferals when the Cyclone resists... :-(
Post by
Lightrain
Isn't MS, by definition, a support ability? It isn't damage, but it improves the effectiveness of everyone's damage by reducing the ability to heal it. That sounds like a support ability to me.
If ferals are being pushed into 'support' damage, then we should get a mini-MS.
We strictly do DPS. Warriors have MS, itnerupts, fear, and slows. Rogues have Poisons(which include slows), interupts, stuns, CC. Hunters have Aimed shot, silence, CC, interupts(scatter), and slows.
The reason they reduced rogue and warrior damage is so they don't double dip on CC, debuff, and support damage. Destro locks..... They definitely double dip.
Would work great on pressuring priest/rogue as well. In 3's, my main issue is if I'm getting focused by a good rogue, he saves his stun for when I try to cyclone, then I'm screwed and they finish me off while stuck in human, stunned, with zero defenses.
The trick will be to make DAMN sure that cyclone sticks. Hit rating is presumably covered on feral gear (think you would need 157 ish to cover 4% plus 2% miss racials many classes have)... but spell pen? I can see MotW resulting in some ganked ferals when the Cyclone resists... :-(
The problem is getting the cyclone off before getting CC'd and raped. Making it stick is the easy part(aside from trinket ofc).
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