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Disc pve - where do we fit in?
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Post by
timwar
So from what i read disc priests are unable to keep up with pally duids and holy spec priests on tank duty and also pale in compare to shamans and druids and holy priests on raid healing duty. So i just wondered what are our strengths in pve ? what exactly does a disc priests do?
Post by
124912
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Post by
321579
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Post by
318206
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Post by
OscarDivine
This is probably a question better answered by Paolo, but I'll put in my 2c.
Disc priests are easily the most misunderstood class in the game both by players who ARE disco priests and by players who aren't.
Disco heals but also mitigates damage. This concept is so foreign to so many people, though it's really not a hard concept to grasp. Players are more interested in seeing large numbers than they are performing well, which is why there are so many terrible tanks out there who stack stamina out the wazoo but ignore their avoidance/mitigation stats and you wonder why a 46k HP tank goes down like a sack of bricks. By the same token, people see a disco priest who only actually HEALED for 1/2 the amount of the paladin next to him, and assume he's not pulled his weight.
This confounding factor set aside, in my opinion the best way to get to most out of a disco priest is to... are you ready? ... have a raid leader who knows how to use you properly.
Poorly done healing assignments can cause wipes. This means that the raid leader should ideally know your performance and your capabilities to make use of you as a damage-control tool. That really is what we are as healers anyway, isn't it?
"Damage Control"
. My feeling is that a disco priest cannot heal a tank on his/her own in content higher than 10 ToC regular. Then again, neither can any other healers, at least not effectively. How many of us who play raid healing priests periodically throw heals and HoTs on our Main tanks? Hopefully all of us raised our hands. A disco priest is an excellent single target "damage control" unit, though admittedly, paladins are superior. The ideal set up would be a disco priest and a paladin for your tank healing duo. That's just my opinion though.
For Raid "Damage Control", Disco does an excellent job as well because the long-lasting pre-emptive "damage control" just sits and waits for damage to occur. Now, interestingly, this has come up in a
previous thread
where we discussed the usefulness of the Holy talent
Test of Faith
. Apparently, in one player's raid, a disco priest combined with resto druids may provide so much critical damage prevention that the talent becomes diminished for this player. Raid damage mitigation is becoming more popular among disco priests and bubble spamming is not necessarily a bad way to control your raid damage.
So to answer the OP's question, I would say that we still have roles as disco in both Single target AND raid "Damage Control". It's really just a matter of people seeing past the blunt numbers and for your raid leader (Heaven help you if you're in a PUG) to use you properly given the raid situation and your other healing/"damage control" tools.
edit: I completely forgot about pain suppression and it's amazing role as a 2nd "shield wall"... This can't be ignored and a paladin can do nothing like it. We do have tools that others do not!
Post by
OscarDivine
However, I will never agree with anyone saying that Holy Priests or Druids are better Tank Healers than Disc Priests
heh, I hear that druids are going to be getting some buffs to their
Nourish
spell that will make them pretty fair single target healers though. ;-) Never say never.
Post by
318206
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Post by
Paolo
So from what i read disc priests are unable to keep up with pally duids and holy spec priests on tank duty and also pale in compare to shamans and druids and holy priests on raid healing duty. So i just wondered what are our strengths in pve ? what exactly does a disc priests do?
Rumors of discipline's death have been greatly exaggerated. They have been spread by the uninformed and the trolls, which makes it a hard fire to put out. (I'm looking for a third metaphor to sneak in here, but I think two will suffice.)
What exactly does disc do? We prevent death from happening. Oh, and we heal too, but only after the prevention. That's the answer in a nutshell: we are mitigators first & foremost, whether we're on tank duty or raid duty.
For better or for worse, playing disc well requires a lot of sophistication, intelligence, research, and engagement. If you're lazy, or playing it like it's the same as holy (but with Penance instead of CoH), or aren't adjusting your gear and rotation to your role and situation, then you'll find yourself with a permanent B+ tatooed on your forehead. The spec is inherently solid, but to make it excellent you have to know what you're doing.
I've met one other disc priest on my server who knows what they're doing. I'm a harsh critic with high standards, but I'm interested in A+. Callmecrazy. But because it requires "touch" to play well, it means that most disc priests out there are pretty mediocre, and that greases the wheels of the disc-sucks rumormill. (There we go, metaphor #3.)
Tank healing
Pally > Disc Priest = Shaman > Holy Priest = Druid
Raid healing
Druid = Holy Priest = Resto Shaman > Disco Priest > Pally
A properly spec'd and glyphed resto druid is (yes, even now) a formidable tank healer. I'd say Pally > Disc > Druid >>> Holy Priest = Resto Sham. But, as Panik8 said, the important "soft" factors of skill and experience will flatten that field quite a lot.
Similarly, a properly geared disc priest is a formidable raid
healer
mitigator, and an excellent partner to the more traditional holy priests or resto druids.
Post by
Paolo
It was'nt my intention to troll or *!@# people off im just trying to learn a few things. I'm getting extremely bored just spamming PW:S on raid duty. So i thought nevermind this im gonna ry tank healing and then I read a load of threads saying disc arent comfortable/trusted on a MT at high end game raids. so i thought well what do we do?I'm not a very high-end disc priest myself. But at the top tiers, you're right: disc priests are valued more as raid healers. Yes, it's boring, but it's also the state of play in the high end right now. In the middle tiers, we can tank heal just fine, but at the edge of progression, we don't keep up with pallies. We just don't scale well.
Grace
is the closest thing we have to a scaling talent, and it's pretty damn weak.
Post by
318206
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Post by
Paolo
One of my guild's trees just upgraded his computer. Prior to that, he shunned addons like they were rogues. So he healed using (yes) the default UI, which means he did everything he could to avoid raid healing. He crafted his toon into a single target machine. I had other trees inspect him and they were quite impressed. His skills are phenomenal as well.
Have a look
, I have no idea about trees. For all I know, the T9 bonuses (and the new computer) may have nudged him in a different direction, although he's still often on tank duty.
Post by
ZoraLink
I view a discipline healer as the glue that binds the entire healing of the raid together. Properly timed PW:S's and penances can save anyone, whether it be the tank or someone in the raid. I strongly advise (For 10 man content) a combination of a discipline priest, holy paladin, and resto druid for healers. The synergy between the three when they work together well is amazing. Primarily have the paladin on tank healing, with the disc providing near constant support, but being willing to toss out renews/shields/POH's/ whatever is needed on the raid. Druids do what they always do.
Post by
312967
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Post by
Paolo
By high end I meant top-tier content. Which is (atm) ToGC25, but the same point applied in 3.1 to hard-mode Ulduar25 and Algalon. I've never had a problem with tank healing, but I'm mid-tier myself (guild hasn't downed hard beasts25 yet, but we've cleared heroic 10... and yes we're in 25-man gear). But I had been reading (and unfortunately ignoring) the words of priests more progressed than me, who kept saying that pallies were pulling ahead at tank healing (even in 3.1) and disc priests were being discovered to be monster raid healers.
On another note: am I really the only disc priest blogger? That's just too much responsibility. Someone write something. Please.
Post by
318206
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Post by
karlusdavius
I think ICC will bring back Discipline healing. Chill of the throne will bring down aviodance, and therefore stop this stupid insane amount of damage coming in on the tanks and bring it back down to fast not so hard hitting attacks. It will be more constant, something we can deal with pretty well.
Post by
174266
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
OscarDivine
Any healer who can heal can keep one tank up...but Paly's win hands down. They can practically keep up two. I still like being a priest.
Perhaps in the lower rungs of raiding content, yes. When you get to Heroic raids and 25 ToC, putting multiple healers on the main tank is common.
Post by
60618
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Post by
karlusdavius
Er, my flash heal as disc is way better than holy... Where did you get that impression from exactly?
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