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Destro Aggro issues
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Post by
306631
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Post by
asakawa
destructive reach (use a build which allows for both points (3/13/55))
▼
smart use of soul shatter (you can get to 130% of the tank before you pull)
▼
ask a paladin for hand on salvation
▼
wisdom enchant on cloak
▼
▼
(last resort if you really can't find a good tank) respec demonology
(demo builds share a greater proportion of their threat with their pet)
Post by
320363
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Post by
Razmortis
Even if you might be slightly better geared than your tanks, you also have to take into consideration that your tanks might be slacking, or just do not know the proper rotation to burst out threat in the beginning of an encounter.
Some of our tanks in my guild are perfectly capable of holding aggro on some bosses in Ulduar that allow nuking straight from the start, even if I crit with Immolate, Conflagrate, Chaos Bolt and Incinerate at the same time (well, with a 2-4 second marginal).
Try 3/13/55 as our dear asakawa suggested and raid a bit with it. Wait 10~ seconds after the pull if needed. Your DPS will not suffer, but your total damage and e-peen will slightly, but who cares as long as the boss dies? If you want to maximize the damage done during an encounter, you need to take all facts in to consideration.
If nothing of the above works, take a serious discussion with the tanks and maybe an officer in your guild about the player skill of the tanks. Keep an eye on Omen and watch the tanks "TPS" (if you do not know what it is, go in to omen and configure a bit until you can see it). If it's very low, then it's most certainly a tank issue.
Post by
asakawa
vigilance is a very good point. new warrior tanks can even use the glyph of vigilance to give them even more chance with DPSers who have much better gear.
i must admit that i read the TLDR version but looking back, you say that this agro was on a 25 man ulduar encounter.
as such, my advice is get better tanks.
that pull is a little tricky, you have to let the tanks separate the mobs and the main tank will be moving steelbreaker into position before they can settle into a proper threat rotation. but assuming you allowed for this and didn't DPS
literally
on the pull then your tanks need to be equal to the content. 25man ulduar requires a tank who can take lots of damage and produce enough threat to give the DPSers some headroom.
if you
did
DPS from the initial pull then there's your problem. bosses aren't trash. they often need careful positioning. until that positioning is established the tank won't be concentrating on threat.
Post by
byrel
smart use of soul shatter (you can get to 130% of the tank before you pull)
ask a paladin for hand on salvation
wisdom enchant on cloak
can't emphasize how much saving soul shatter for the last minute can help - this can be tricky (and requires a tank that is on their toes), but if the boss is tauntable, you can push threat to the point where you pull agro, let the tank taunt,
then
soul shatter - it's an extra 30% threat for the tank (I don't usually do this on purpose, but if you were *really* on the same page as your tank, it's something you could try)
A couple others that my guild uses:
Hunters/rogues misdirect/tricks of the trade every time it's off cooldown
ask for vigilance if you have a warrior tank (and get them to glyph vigilance if at all possible)
honestly, though if you were having threat problems on the second and third mobs in iron council, it's got to be a tanking problem - by the time the first boss is down, the tank should have at
least
600k threat on the second boss - in a 25 man, this should all but guarantee that it's impossible for you to catch up to the second tank
Post by
asakawa
wow, you pulled on the second and third bosses? (yes, i admit, i'm barely reading the OP - it's a badly laid out wall of text with nothing but commas and ellipses)
sack the tanks.
Post by
289853
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Post by
129690
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
this is not solution of a Destro threat issue...
i think you're misunderstanding. simcraft results aside, demo isn't inherently worse than destro, both can do very well if played well. the point is that the same damage is spread over 2 characters (you and your pet), leading to far less threat problems.
i did put it way at the bottom of the list (notice the use of arrows) knowing that it wasn't an ideal solution, but a solution none-the-less.
Post by
289853
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
hehe, thanks.
i've edited my above post so it's clear that it's a last resort.
i suppose that, since threat is inexorably tied to damage there comes a point where, if you've done all you can to lower your threat without lowering your damage, the only other option is to lower your damage. choosing a demo based build has to be a more appealing option than that.
Post by
253735
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
lucius
You wouldn't happen to be using a lot of
Searing Pain
to proc
Pyroclasm
?
Or getting misdirections without noticing it? Either your hunters could be playing a joke on you, or you may have a similar name to the tank. We had a priest with the same first three letters as our main tank and one of the hunters using a macro with /tar Fel /cast Misdirection. It worked fine when Felamist (priest) wasn't in the raid, otherwise he'd get Feldspar's (tank) misdirect.
There's just no way you're pulling aggro on the 3rd (or 2nd) boss without someone doing something intentional or really wrong. It's possible your offtank died before he had his mob taunted and lost all his built up threat?
Post by
265025
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
there is some truth to the idea that tanks gear for more mitigation and avoidance on progression content than farmed stuff. however there are as many dps races in ulduar as survival fights.
good tanks will have sets of gear for each and a good line of communication between DPS and tanks can solve problems on fights where the tanks feel they need mitigation over threat. threat is a tanking concern though and it's something they need to think about when gearing and speccing.
in the case of the iron council, though, if you're not doing hard mode there's no particular reason for the tanks to go out of their way to gear for mitigation.
Post by
188217
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Post by
Ksero
my guild isn't very far in progression and i have slightly better gear than our tanks, last week i pulled grand widow faerlina while she was enraged, soulshatter was on CD but i got lucky and dodged 3 hits in a row while running backwards (I stopped casting), the tank then picked her up.
I have 2/2 destructive reach, and am running 3/13/55
is it just bad tanks?
Post by
asakawa
in that case yes (kinda). but if you out-gear your tanks then there's only so much that player skill on the tank's part can do. you have to make some allowances.
really though, there's no excuse for pulling with soul shatter on cooldown. if you've already needed to use it and are getting close to the tank's threat then it suggests bad play on your own part that you kept going until you pulled.
...also running
away
from the tank is a little worrying. i know instinct tells you to but that's not the best idea.
Post by
Zelan
you can't always blame the tanks, even i outgear my tanks, and i'm not overaggroing, tho cause we have ppl assigned on my ass all the time.
the only boss i'm having aggro issues on is hodir, the council shouldn't be any problem based on how your tanks act and how their specs are.
if they have a survival spec then tell them to go deeper into the basic aggro spec, since their gear should be enough for their survivability.
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