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Confused Prot Pally (is my spec that bad?)
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Post by
Chocodave
Ok, normally I'm quite happy to read through these forums and, sifting through the lols and the stfu nub comments, actually learn a lot about prot pally tanking. But! Today I got told by a random guy that my spec was all messed up and wrong... So here I am, panicing, and hoping you nice people will settle my fears!
Firstly! The Spec:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZE0xA0uMGsIufdef00b:kcpmVM
I want to justify a few things here, if only so you know why I chose them and can then tell me why I'm wrong. (This is what I was told I was wrong about, so... hmmmm) . This spec is for a raiding environment as MT, just so's you all know :)
Reckoning - As far as i knew, this was a definite no-no. I don't want to get hit... ever... so why would I choose a talent that only works when I get hit? (I was told I needed it for increased threat)
Improved Judgements - I know 1/2 was the standard for the 96969 rotation, but now exorcism does damage too, I guessed it wouldn't hurt to have this off CD as often as possible. (was called a n00b for having 2/2 there...)
Pursuit of Justice - I'm not worried about disarm affects, but surely a +15% speed increase is a good thing? Chasing after the stray add, running out of the bad stuff on the floor, is there any reason I wouldn't want this? (apparently so... :S)
Benediction - Now with the recent buffs of Divine Plea, I'm not so sure I need this at all... being called an idiot for having my spare points here was what started this cry for help!
Well.. sorry for the wall of text, I just really hope I can get some good feedback from fellow tankadins. I welcome any constructive criticism, honest!
Cheers in advance! Choco
Post by
svirve
Only thing that i would say is a definite no-no is that you've put points in benediction over crusade.
Reckoning gives you more threat. But like 2 more threat over a 10 minute fight. (not really but it's VERY little)
2/2 imp judgements is more than justified.
PoJ is always nice.
Post by
MischievousLoki
Do whatever you want. The information and theorycrafting is out there for you to read, but no one is forcing you.
I've never been in love with divinity for tanking... or anything really.
If you're tanking in a raid you really don't need that much mana regeneration/efficiency, new Divine Plea will have you covered with 1/2 SA and no SA glyph. You can figure that out on your own if you really want to.
Reckoning isn't fantastic, but it's generally considered better than divinity when moving down the tree (I put one point in it and 2 in IHoJ for spell interrupts)
Putting an exorcism or avenger's shield in your rotation will mess it up whether or not you have an extra second off judgement's cooldown, though if you're moving down the tree you're not losing out on much by putting another point in it (just 2% mana efficiency)
Post by
svirve
With AS/Exo sub you dont need any points in imp judgements. since you only judge every 18 seconds.
Allows for more threat as well.
Post by
259381
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
362357
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
svirve
I guess you're the guy that made him make this post from the beginning.
1) Judgements of the Just
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=53696
Is not really that good for a PVE Prot Paladin. I really don't know what they are thinking with this talent.. I guess... PVProtadins..oh well.
Prot Paladins want to get hit. Decreasing a mobs attack speed means you're getting swung at less often. Which means less Blessing of Sanctuary mana returns and also means less blocks for Holy Shield damage.
So wait... You'd rather get some more mana to your already infinite mana pool over 16% physical mitigation............
2) Improved Judgements 2/2
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=25957
Yes Exorcism is nice, but it's not worth putting 2/2 into Improved Judgements. Go 1/2.
Pretty much the only time I use Exorcism is if I'm not body pulling 4 mobs(using Avenger's Shield) so it only hits 3, I'll Exorcism the 4th target. Your 96969 rotation is more than enough threat to hold whatever is on you, on you. I use the 96969 rotation and no Exorcism's in there, and average 4k-6k TPS on single target.
He could skip imp judgements all along and go for exo/as sub. But why? Might as well go 2/2 imp judgements.
3) Persuit of Justice
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=26023
Definitely a waste of stat points here. If you're interested in a speed boost,
get this
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=47901
. It's only 8% increase apposed to 15, but hey... all it costs is -8 stamina over Greater Fortitude. I personally just use Greater Fort. because our taunts have 30y range(yes... we have 2! If you'd like a macro for Righteous Defense to work like a regular taunt, look it up) and we also have Exorcism, Avenger's Shield... plenty of high threat ranged talents to pull loose mobs. As for staying out of the "bad stuff"... just pay attention. =P
Pursuit of justice is definately not a waste of points. Could be spent in crit instead but it's a matter of preference.
Lastly. No, Reckoning is garbage unless you're using Seal of Righteousness(what kinda prot paladin does anyways?) Seal of Vengeance is the way to go. Also. Get the Glyph that adds 10 Expertise when it's active. Great Glyph.
Well atleast you got 1 thing right. Reckoning is $%^& for threat.
aaaand Benediction. No. No... and no. Mana returns you'll be getting from Blessing of Sanc. Divine Plea up almost all the time... Plus Spiritual Attunement... your mana will probably never drop below 70%.
Wait didnt you say he needed more mana?
I'll give you my greatly awesome super duper no-fail spec WITH the glyphs I use. They are great.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sVZE0tAbuMGsIufzxs:GNpmcz
Yes, Seals of the Pure IS worth it! My 5-stacked Judgements hit for about 1200, crit for a little over 2k.
No Persuit of Justice, No Judgements of the Just, no Benediction and you're good to go!
Just.. Lol.
Sorry for the long, long, long wall of text. But glad to help.
Is it really helping if you're making his performance worse and making him an all out worse tank?
Post by
129299
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Quest
Do whatever you want. The information and theorycrafting is out there for you to read, but no one is forcing you.
I subscribe to the notion that if people are on the forums, they can suck it with the "works for me" mentality. Don't come to forums if you don't want or care for optimizing your char, because you'll nearly always get slapped in the face with facts where preconception may not match and then drama ensues with the stubborn types.
Post by
twinkinshammy
Look im not the best tank but I do see some things worng with your spec. Your saying you don't want Reckoning because it procs on you getting hit and you don't want that. BUT you are prot meaning you should (at least most people are if they are prot) be a tank amd when tanking dungeons it will proc quite often. It's not good for threat but you can use that for a little extra damage. Divine sacrifice is good if your going to be off-tanking in a raid and main tanks are taking to much heat. Not really worth imporivng it woth next tier talent though. Imo, Prusiut of Justice is a worthless waist of talent points if your not worried about disarming, my advice is to go with
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZE0zA0ugGsIufdVf0L
but this is just my opinion do not know me down for just an opinion.
Post by
Overhaul
I nominate
this
spec. If anyone has anything against it please tell me. Also I recommend the Major and Minor glyphs I have listed.
Post by
129299
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Overhaul
I agree, if he is main tank,
Glyph of Avenger's shield
or
Exorcism
may be something he should look into. The would be better for boss fights, adding threat and dps. HotR is this a Glyph I enjoy personally.
Post by
zoomie
1) Judgements of the Just
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=53696
Is not really that good for a PVE Prot Paladin. I really don't know what they are thinking with this talent.. I guess... PVProtadins..oh well.
Prot Paladins want to get hit. Err. Rather... Swung at. Decreasing a mobs attack speed means you're getting swung at less often. Which means less Blessing of Sanctuary mana returns and also means.
I run without blessing of sanctuary all the time now. It is really only good for 3% damage reduction. With divine plea being able to be kept up 100% of the time, the mana return from this isn't as much as it used to be. "Decreasin g a mobs attack speed means you're getting swung at less often." That is the only thing you said in your statement that is correct. But for some reason you think it is a bad thing. If you haven't noticed, theres a ton of talents and glyphs that say 'reduces damage by X%'. All of our gear has stats like defense, dodge, block, parry, and high armor. 99% of the prot paladin community got the small subtle hint from blizzard that as a tank, you DON'T WANT TO GET HIT. So why is a boss swinging slower a bad thing?
Why is it that there is still people out there that thinK paladins are a reactive threat class, and we need to get swung at more often? And while I am on the subject of why people play paladins like we did a year ago, how come I have seen 3 prot paladins on my server with level 80 epic tanking weapons with a spell power enchant?
Post by
slasher0161
Imo, Prusiut of Justice is a worthless waist of talent points if your not worried about disarming, my advice is to go with
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZE0zA0ugGsIufdVf0L
but this is just my opinion do not know me down for just an opinion.
And the fail build of the week goes to...
this guy
*edit*
And while I am on the subject of why people play paladins like we did a year ago, how come I have seen 3 prot paladins on my server with level 80 epic tanking weapons with a spell power enchant?
can't teach an old dog new tricks... another word for it is "E-bay"
Post by
180547
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
blademeld
This thread makes me want to scream.
Though on reconsideration, screaming over the internet seems stupid.
Post by
231272
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Persen
Though on reconsideration, screaming over the internet seems stupid.
Q F T
Post by
Bruenor80
This
is what I go with personally. 5/5 conviction ends up being TONS of threat, especially if you are grouped with a feral druid. Considering a crit SotR usually ends up being around 9k for me(in threat set), it adds up quickly. Also you get PoJ for the increased run speed(very helpful for bosses you have to kite such as Anub'arak) and a little increased threat from crusade. Considering my guild rarely has a warrior tanking(our former MT has gotten really busy with life lately) I find the extra run speed from PoJ(over Tusker's Vit) to be preferable to some unneeded threat.
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