This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Classic Theme
Thottbot Theme
Conclusion: Armor penetration = junk?
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
140351
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
169025
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
140351
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
axhed
eg. It's least effective on cloth wearers.
bzzzzzt wrong
Post by
Foopeemoa
ArP doesn't become as useful until you have a lot of it, like 30% or more. The more ArP you have, the more beneficial more ArP becomes for you. ArP seems more beneficial in PvE than PvP, although I haven't PvPed much lately.
Post by
Piz420
ArP works if your gear is high end raiding like Ulduar. Since you grabbed a sword with 186 DPS from that tournoment, you are not at the that point its useful. start raiding more.
Post by
140351
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
304116
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Talix
eg. It's least effective on cloth wearers.
bzzzzzt wrong
what are u talking about? ArP is based of percentages thus since clothies have little armor you still remove the same percentage as a Pally or DK but not as much. And the little amount you do take off of clothies barely makes a difference.
Although it may be 'least' effective against clothies, as such, reduces the least amount of armor it still amplifies the amount of damage probably more substantially than it does a heavy plate wearer. The reason for this is the way armor has diminishing returns per point.
My math is going to be way off, but lets say at about 2,000 Armor you get a 10% damage reduction. Add another 2,000 Armor, and you might get up to about 12% or 14% opposed to the expected 20%. And it gets even more and more, a plate wearer at 14k Armor might have 45% damage reduction.
Thus, if you reduce the 2,000 Armor that a standard cloth wearer will have, by 30% you bring their damage reduction value down substantially more as a percentage than if you were to bring down a 14k Plate wearer down by 30%.
Post by
Sakkura
Talix, the flaw in your logic is that a certain percentage of mitigation becomes more valuable the more you have already. So armor doesn't really have diminishing returns, at least as long as you look at things in terms of time to live.
Post by
Rubendesmet619
every point of armor you gain is more worthles, think we al agree on that. going from 4k armor to 8k is a better gain in survivability compared to going from 40k armor to 44k.
Wich is a Dismishing return, not gone start arguing on that.
Post by
Sakkura
every point of armor you gain is more worthles, think we al agree on that. going from 4k armor to 8k is a better gain in survivability compared to going from 40k armor to 44k.
Wich is a Dismishing return, not gone start arguing on that.
The only problem is that you're dead wrong.
Let's assume a tank with 30k health, being beaten on by a raid boss that does 30k DPS pre-mitigation in infinitesimal increments, and for simplicity leave out all avoidance and block. The base time to live is 1 second (30000 health / 30000 DPS = 1 second).
With 4000 armor, the mitigation against a raid boss is 19.385%. This means the boss will be doing 24185 DPS post-mitigation, and the time to live is thus 1.24 seconds.
With 8000 armor, the mitigation against a raid boss is 32.474%. This means the boss will be doing 20258 DPS post-mitigation, and the time to live is thus 1.48 seconds.
The difference in time to live between 8000 and 4000 armor is 0.24 seconds; and the difference in time to live is in fact the same between 4000 and zero armor. But let's do the math for the 40k -> 44k scenario too, just to be sure:
With 40000 armor, the mitigation against a raid boss is 70.628%. This means the boss will be doing 8812 DPS post-mitigation, and the time to live is thus 3.40 seconds.
With 44000 armor, the mitigation against a raid boss is 72.565%. This means the boss will be doing 8230 DPS post-mitigation, and the time to live is thus 3.65 seconds.
So we see that the increase in time to live is the same (0.24 seconds, well 0.25 seconds here due to rounding) even when we scale all the way up fairly close to the armor cap (at 49.9k armor versus raid bosses). A flat amount of armor always increases time to live by the same flat amount, regardless of how much armor you already have - as long as you don't reach the armor cap.
Post by
158964
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
295717
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Valer
Do you realise armor gives less reduction per point the more you have? The first 1000 armor gives around ten percent reduction or something, however if you have 10,000 another 1000 armor will give you maybe another 3 percent reduction.
So really its quite balanced as a percent reduction as -1000 armor on a target with low armor gives a greater loss of damage reduction than -1000 armor on a target with 15000 armor. But seeing as its percentage the target loses more armor the more they have and balances things out.
You still get more from armor pen against high armor targets than low, but the difference isnt as big as you might think.
Post by
Sakkura
Do you realise armor gives less reduction per point the more you have? The first 1000 armor gives around ten percent reduction or something, however if you have 10,000 another 1000 armor will give you maybe another 3 percent reduction.
Please refer to my exhaustive math example above to see why your logic is flawed. Yes the percentage is smaller, but that smaller percentage is worth just as much as the larger percentage you got before.
Post by
105402
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
104722
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Fakir
Fair enough. But I don't like raiding (gasp) even though Blizzard has made it almost absolutely necessary to get decent gear. I can't sit and play for 2-4 hours at a stretch.
Then luckily the new Furious 2h-weapons are superior to most weapons you can get by raiding.
Post by
Katsudon
You should think in terms of Effective HP or eHP instead of armor. Armor scales logarithmically in terms of % reduction (most people think of this as diminishing returns), but it scales linearly with effective hp. The reason why people think armor becomes less worthwhile when you have it is this flaw in logic; they aren't thinking in terms of eHP.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.