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Christianity - The Horse that Refuses to Die
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Post by
193410
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Ksero
A Perspective on Clergy Sexual Abuse by Dr. Thomas Plante of Stanford University and Santa Clara University states that "approximately 4% of priests during the past half century (and mostly in the 1960s and 1970s) have had a sexual experience with a minor" which "is consistent with male clergy from other religious traditions and is significantly lower than the general adult male population which may double these numbers". Additionally, according to Newsweek magazine, the figure in the Catholic Church is similar to that in the rest of the adult population.
from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases#Scope_and_nature
3rd paragraph
EDIT:
http://www.psychwww.com/psyrelig/plante.html
(original article)
Post by
ExDementia
A Perspective on Clergy Sexual Abuse by Dr. Thomas Plante of Stanford University and Santa Clara University states that "approximately 4% of priests during the past half century (and mostly in the 1960s and 1970s) have had a sexual experience with a minor" which "is consistent with male clergy from other religious traditions and is significantly lower than the general adult male population which may double these numbers". Additionally, according to Newsweek magazine, the figure in the Catholic Church is similar to that in the rest of the adult population.
from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases#Scope_and_nature
3rd paragraph
EDIT:
http://www.psychwww.com/psyrelig/plante.html
(original article)
Is that implying that over 4% of the population are child rapists? If that is saying that the number "is significantly lower than the general adult male population which may double these numbers." That would mean that possibly 8% of the population has molested a child? Is this true?
Also, this doesn't change the fact that it is overwhelmingly hypocritical and my ultimate point:
Also, I would just like to point out, that if really he is the creator of all, and if he is truly is omnipotent; god created child rape. Food for thought.
Post by
Gone
Just the fact that god's own holy men are responsible for molesting so many young (mostly male) children just makes me absolutely sick. Apart from
NAMBLA
, I would say Christianity has the highest number of child rapists of any group out there today (this is not fact, it's a speculation). Just the fact that it is usually a homosexual act is just icing on the cake.
According to
Bishop-Accountability.org
, there have been over 6,000 priests accused of sexual abuse since the 1950's. Great spokesmen, eh? If these people were representing a company, they would have been canned a long time ago, yet, so many of these guys are still free to preach the word of their all mighty god. The one who made all this child rape possible.
Isn't it kind of funny (not 'haha' funny), that out of all the different groups of people out there, its the priests and pastors of Christianity that are so universally known for these incredibly widespread and atrocious acts?
Anyone know why that is? Anyone know why it's the men who have devoted their lives to god and spreading his good word, are the ones doing this?
The ultimate hypocrisy?
Also, I would just like to point out, that if really he is the creator of all, and if he is truly is omnipotent; god created child rape. Food for thought.
Ok I havnt even read the posts that came after this yet, so sorry if somone already responded to this.
1) Show me any statistics that say most child molestors are men of the cloth, or vise versa.
2) I read an article a while back in the rolling stone, about a group of soldiers that called themselfs the "kill squad" that basicly went around killing civilians in the mid east for kicks, they even had a picture of one of them posing by the body of a 15 year old boy. Does this mean that all Americans are blood thirsty phychopaths?
3) You have already been given an answer
twice
to this "God created evil" flag that you keep trying to wave. God created humans and gave them free will, human beings use this free will to do evil. Without free will being good is meaningless, if the option to do evil werent there nobody could ever be good, we would all just be robots.
4) At this point your just spouting anti religious trolling. Again if you were talking about blacks, or gays, or any other culture/sub group like this a mod would shut your biggoted ass down in about 5 seconds.
Post by
ExDementia
Just the fact that god's own holy men are responsible for molesting so many young (mostly male) children just makes me absolutely sick. Apart from
NAMBLA
, I would say Christianity has the highest number of child rapists of any group out there today (this is not fact, it's a speculation). Just the fact that it is usually a homosexual act is just icing on the cake.
According to
Bishop-Accountability.org
, there have been over 6,000 priests accused of sexual abuse since the 1950's. Great spokesmen, eh? If these people were representing a company, they would have been canned a long time ago, yet, so many of these guys are still free to preach the word of their all mighty god. The one who made all this child rape possible.
Isn't it kind of funny (not 'haha' funny), that out of all the different groups of people out there, its the priests and pastors of Christianity that are so universally known for these incredibly widespread and atrocious acts?
Anyone know why that is? Anyone know why it's the men who have devoted their lives to god and spreading his good word, are the ones doing this?
The ultimate hypocrisy?
Also, I would just like to point out, that if really he is the creator of all, and if he is truly is omnipotent; god created child rape. Food for thought.
Ok I havnt even read the posts that came after this yet, so sorry if somone already responded to this.
1) Show me any statistics that say most child molestors are men of the cloth, or vise versa.
Please show me where I said that. I said of any one group, it seems like there are more. AND I said that was speculation, not fact. I was very careful about that.
2) I read an article a while back in the rolling stone, about a group of soldiers that called themselfs the "kill squad" that basicly went around killing civilians in the mid east for kicks, they even had a picture of one of them posing by the body of a 15 year old boy. Does this mean that all Americans are blood thirsty phychopaths?
Where did I say this makes all priests child rapists? I didn't. You get a n F in reading comprehension for the day.
3) You have already been given an answer
twice
to this "God created evil" flag that you keep trying to wave. God created humans and gave them free will, human beings use this free will to do evil. Without free will being good is meaningless, if the option to do evil werent there nobody could ever be good, we would all just be robots.
I'll say it again. If god created everything, god created evil. Simple as that.
4) At this point your just spouting anti religious trolling. Again if you were talking about blacks, or gays, or any other culture/sub group like this a mod would shut your biggoted #$%^ down in about 5 seconds.
You have ridiculously misinterpreted what I've said and added in your own ideas of how
you think
I am thinking.
Pretty much everything you just said was one big load of crap. Please do not put words in my mouth. I have posted plenty on here for you to quote. So please, show me where I said any of these things.
Check this out in my very first post in the thread:
IF YOU READ ANYTHING IN THIS POST, LET IT BE THIS PARAGRAPH!
I know that now that mainstream Christianity is much, much more lighthearted now, and that most Christians are just plain ol' good people who just want to help. Most Christians take very little of what is in the bible literally at all, and just value it for its good teachings and stories, which I will admit, it does have. I have nothing but a whole bucket load of respect for these people, but not for their faith. I respect them for being good people by their own right. Whether they know it or not.
Also, see this from my very first post:
Just the fact that god's own holy men are responsible for molesting so many young (mostly male) children just makes me absolutely sick. Apart from NAMBLA, I would say Christianity has the highest number of child rapists of any group out there today
(this is not fact, it's a speculation)
. Just the fact that it is usually a homosexual act is just icing on the cake.
Post by
Ksero
I would like to point out that I am an athiest, and do not believe in god (or any other religious deity), but at this point in time Christianity is not preventing me from living my life as i would like to, so i see no reason to try to label it as false or untrue, since my time can be better used for other things. also, i am Canadian, so peacekeeping has kind of been driven into me since birth.
Post by
Gone
Ok first of all fix your quote.
Second, when nobody responded to your ridiculas "God created child rape" quote, you linked it again, which tells me your trying to get a reaction.
Third just bringing up the fact that some priests are pedophiles, and by saying that out of all teh groups they are univeraly known for it, in a debate about christianity, gives the impression you are trying to make that out to be a valid point, when it has been said several times that they are just the focus of media frenzy.
Post by
ExDementia
Ok first of all fix your quote.
Done.
Second, when nobody responded to your ridiculas "God created child rape" quote, you linked it again, which tells me your trying to get a reaction.
I linked it because I wanted to hear the other sides opinion on the matter. The same reason why I said it in the first place.
Third just bringing up the fact that some priests are pedophiles, and by saying that out of all teh groups they are univeraly known for it, in a debate about christianity, gives the impression you are trying to make that out to be a valid point, when it has been said several times that they are just the focus of media frenzy.
When I said they where universally known for it, I meant in the world of child molestation. And yes, this is largely due to the media frenzy about it.
Post by
ExDementia
Now I just want to say, since I am being painted as a crazy person here:
I am a nice person :)
I am very tolerant of others beliefs, I do NOT push mine on other people in everyday life.
Most people don't even know I'm an atheist, because I don't talk about it much.
This is different because it is a discussion thread about the subject, this is where it can all come out.
I have many, many friends who are active in their churches, including a few pastors. I have an unbelievable amount of respect for these people because of how much they help out in the community, and because of just how good of people they are.
Also:
I spent 3/4 years in high school working with the mentally disabled.
I give blood regularly (and plasma, now)
I just helped set up a fund raiser with my friends church to go to the victims of the tornadoes in the Midwest recently.
I have read the bible a few times through, and quite enjoy some of the stories and teachings within it.
Post by
Gone
Honestly a lot of this thread I find a little offending, maby im tired or just overly sensitive.
Lemmi ask you this, if I made a thread called "Homosexuality- The Horse That Refuses To Die" and linked some gay bashing site in it asking people to take it seriously and have a rational discussion (even the hardcore atheists here have admitted that the site linked by the OP is ridiculas and gives falso info) how long do you think it would take for a mod to shut it down?
I mean a mod on the L&RP page shut down a thread for giving "false information" because 4dehorde said King Varian was like hitler.
Post by
Adamsm
Well that was locked for invoking
Godwin's Law
...and so was the one right before it.
Post by
Gone
I meant the very first one last week, Gnub mentioned Godwins law but he also said it was for spreading false info.
Like I said though if I made this very same thread, but it was about gays, or black people, or anything like that it would get shut down faster than you could snap.
Post by
ExDementia
Honestly a lot of this thread I find a little offending, maby im tired or just overly sensitive.
Lemmi ask you this, if I made a thread called "Homosexuality- The Horse That Refuses To Die" and linked some gay bashing site in it asking people to take it seriously and have a rational discussion (even the hardcore atheists here have admitted that the site linked by the OP is ridiculas and gives falso info) how long do you think it would take for a mod to shut it down?
I mean a mod on the L&RP page shut down a thread for giving "false information" because 4dehorde said King Varian was like hitler.
That is actually quite different. Preaching hate speech against gays is not comparable to arguing religion. Discussing religious beliefs is NOT the same as discriminating against gays or blacks or anything. That is preposterous.
And yes, the original site linked was full of crap. I also stated that on the very first page.
Post by
Gone
That is actually quite different. Preaching hate speech against gays is not comparable to arguing religion.
Enlighten me
EDIT: lets not even call it hate speech against gays, how about just arguing against gays? How is that hate speech, and when its religion its just a debate.
Post by
ExDementia
That is actually quite different. Preaching hate speech against gays is not comparable to arguing religion.
Enlighten me
EDIT: lets not even call it hate speech against gays, how about just arguing against gays? How is that hate speech, and when its religion its just a debate.
Its not comparable because one is saying that a type person is lesser, the other is saying that you disagree with a certain set of beliefs.
By your reasoning, you saying that you disagreeing with atheism is comparable to saying you discriminate against blacks. Is that true?
No.
Post by
Gone
That is actually quite different. Preaching hate speech against gays is not comparable to arguing religion.
Enlighten me
EDIT: lets not even call it hate speech against gays, how about just arguing against gays? How is that hate speech, and when its religion its just a debate.
Its not comparable because one is saying that a type person is lesser, the other is saying that you disagree with a certain set of beliefs.
By your reasoning, you saying you disagree with atheism is comparable to saying you discriminate against blacks. Is that true?
No.
I dont make forum posts attacking atheism. And im not saying calling gays lesser people, just saying what you just said about religion.
Suppose somone was to use the same arguments here against religion, only against gays. If you go up to a gay person and say you "disagree with their lifestyle" do you think they wouldnt be offended by that?
Post by
ExDementia
I dont make forum posts attacking atheism. And im not saying calling gays lesser people, just saying what you just said about religion.
Suppose somone was to use the same arguments here against religion, only against gays. If you go up to a gay person and say you "disagree with their lifestyle" do you think they wouldnt be offended by that?
I think you may be confused. I did not create this thread.
Also, while you may not agree, I view discrimination against minorities as a separate entity than disagreeing about religion.
Post by
Gone
I dont make forum posts attacking atheism. And im not saying calling gays lesser people, just saying what you just said about religion.
Suppose somone was to use the same arguments here against religion, only against gays. If you go up to a gay person and say you "disagree with their lifestyle" do you think they wouldnt be offended by that?
I think you may be confused. I did not create this thread.
Also, while you may not agree, I view discrimination against minorities as a separate entity than disagreeing about religion.
I didnt say you were, the post I made a few posts back was more directed at this thread in general.
And no discrimintaing against peoples religion is no different than discrimination against minoritys, you may not think so but most people including the supreme court would disagree with you, Religious discrimination is listed right up there with race, sexual orientation, and disabilitys.
Post by
HoleofArt
Wow.
Alright, I haven't had time to check this thread until now, but I feel I should clarify a few things:
1) I am not personally attacking your religion. I'm honestly not. This isn't "bashing" anything. That was not the intent whatsoever, and I'd like it if you stopped treating me as some ignorant religion hater. Just because I linked the site, does not make it my views. As I also stated, I found the site by complete chance.
2) I acknowledged the site was biased. I stated that it exceeded my expectations, and was not as bad as I first perceived, as a website called "truth-saves" is bound to be full of it. Yes, there is bad logic and arguments within it (especially the Jesus not existing part - maybe I should have made the OP a little more clear as to what I did and didn't agree with. It was late and I was in a hurry to get to sleep. My fault). Yes, it is propaganda, which I also stated. I was more interested in where the site showed contradictions made in Christianity and why these contradictions mattered.
3) Really, the point of this thread was supposed to lean towards the Bible itself. I, for one, don't understand how ancient scriptures and the like are supposed to be used as evidence for God, when they've been changed and adapted numerous times throughout history. Another question I have is if your religion is correct, this in many cases, makes others wrong - other religions with just as many ancient scriptures and texts as Christianity. What makes yours the right one?
Honestly, I'm not attacking you. I'm not bashing you. I was never trying to "force atheism down (your) throats". If you noticed, my opening post was fairly lighthearted and I didn't mean for it to be taken in any other way.
Post by
ExDementia
I dont make forum posts attacking atheism. And im not saying calling gays lesser people, just saying what you just said about religion.
Suppose somone was to use the same arguments here against religion, only against gays. If you go up to a gay person and say you "disagree with their lifestyle" do you think they wouldnt be offended by that?
I think you may be confused. I did not create this thread.
Also, while you may not agree, I view discrimination against minorities as a separate entity than disagreeing about religion.
I didnt say you were, the post I made a few posts back was more directed at this thread in general.
And no discrimintaing against peoples religion is no different than discrimination against minoritys, you may not think so but most people including the supreme court would disagree with you, Religious discrimination is listed right up there with race, sexual orientation, and disabilitys.
I am not discriminating against anyone's religion! Where did you get that? Discussing differences of opinion on ones spiritual beliefs is far from discriminating against them. And if you do think of them as the same thing, then you are just as guilty as I am since you are also voicing your opinion on the matter.
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