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Boomkins - Crit or Haste?
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Post by
122153
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Post by
hashmel
hit > all till capped
SP > all after hit cap
haste > crit till haste soft cap
crit
>
haste after haste soft cap
crit > haste at GCD cap (if you for some reason manage to hit it)
Post by
122153
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Post by
curlymon
Haste softcap is 400 with all raid buffs.
Hit is in the Druid FAQ at the top fo the druid forums.
Post by
292710
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Post by
Celdhyrean
236
Post by
203406
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Post by
DrDrako
Haste softcap is 400 with all raid buffs.
Hit is in the Druid FAQ at the top fo the druid forums.
raid buffs including class specific talents/buffs?
Swift Retribution
for example, (yeah, i know it doesnt stack with imp Moonkin)
Post by
292710
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Post by
curlymon
Yeah, the reason I said look in the FAQ for hit is because just about all the important levels of hit are covered with in is already, based on the present buffs and whatnot.
As for the raidbuffs for boomkin in terms of haste we only have a small few but we love them to death:
CF
WoA totem
NG
iMkA
I get the feeling I'm missing something and I'm gonna need more coffee for it to click into my brain so maybe in a few hours if I remember... or if someone else beats me to it.
Post by
340332
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Post by
Celdhyrean
Despite what ppl say, in my view the goal as a boomkin , imho anywhay, is to get starfire as close to gcd as possible.Why ? I'm not against people giving themselves personal goals, but when discussing on forums it's good to separate what's personal goal and more objectively "best practices for good dps".
In particular here, haste is not better than crit or sp over the haste cap. Getting the SF cast down to 1s might be fun but you'll be losing on overall dps to get there.
(on that note though, i did down to 1.1s SF casts on our Sarth3D attempts with 600 haste from gear, 500 from EotS trinket proc, 500 from haste potion, NG and bloodlust. It's fun espeecially during lunar, but I'll let you imagine how much haste on gear you'd need to equate that.)
Post by
murakaz
400 haste cap will get your wrath cast down to gcd fuy raid buffed under hero.
Despite what ppl say, in my view the goal as a boomkin , imho anywhay, is to get starfire as close to gcd as possible . I am currently at 547 haste, and if I didnt have to gem hi I would be well over 600.. I have had starfirre down to 1.4 secs under hero and with eclipse procced, that equals about 9k dps.
The 400 soft cap doesn't actually include heroism/bloodlust, with it Wrath usually goes down to about 0.8 or so.
While stacking haste in such a manner would indeed significantly boost your dps under the conditions you noted, outside of those 15 seconds you would only be hampering yourself.
Post by
340332
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Post by
Gemily
Youre missing the point. SF is more powerful than wrath. Hence it has a longer cast time. Getting the cast time of SF down equates to greater dps. When wrath and SF have the same cast time u will do the most damage with SF. Ergo: haste is more important than crit. Crit is still only an 'on chance' stat while haste is guaranteed to increase dps untill gcd.
And how do you expect to proc eclipse without crit seeing as how it's only procced on critical hits...
Post by
340332
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Post by
Celdhyrean
The point is, mathematical theorycrafting and simulation toos both tell us what values sp, hit, haste, crit take depending on where you stand. Waving around your arms tellling us that SF is stronger and thus you gain more by boosting it strongly (with things useless to more than half of your rotation) than you would gain by boosting ALL your spells by a smaller amount isn't going to convince us.
I'll say it again, after 400 haste (in normal raid conditions), 1 point of haste rating brings you less dps than 1 point of crit or spell.
Post by
murakaz
Youre missing the point. SF is more powerful than wrath. Hence it has a longer cast time. Getting the cast time of SF down equates to greater dps. When wrath and SF have the same cast time u will do the most damage with SF. Ergo: haste is more important than crit. Crit is still only an 'on chance' stat while haste is guaranteed to increase dps untill gcd.
Since what you're saying is dated and no longer applies to the 3.2 rotation, if you can supply some actual math to support the theory that our itemization priority did not change with the buff to Eclipse, that would be fantastic.
Post by
340332
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Post by
Celdhyrean
1° At 400 haste, Wrath cast time isn't 1s unless you take NG into account. Thus you should take NG into account for SF too and it will become shorter than 2.4s
2° You neglect spell coefficients and spellpower. Might seem like only an approximation at first, but when comparing spells with high differences in base damage and low-medium differences in scaling, you'll see that it is quite important to make some assumptions on where you stand on the spellpower scale in order to determine who is better than the other. (crit and haste too but you did make some assumptions about those)
3° your description of the lunar bonus seems strange to me : it's a straight +30% crit chance to all SF's during the Eclipse. If you aren't under Eclipse, then you are casting wrath to get there anyway so the pre-lunar phase has nothing to do with SF.
A better way to look at thing would be to consider that time to proc Eclipses is generally consistent between both cases (with a slight advantage to lunar despite the RNG making it seem otherwise). As such you want to consider situations during Eclipse and situations outside of Eclipse separately : if it takes the same time to proc one or the other, i can compare the non-eclipse's versions to see what i lose, and when i'm under Eclipse i can compare the Eclipsed version.
4° Regarding RNG cming with crit: you can be unlucky at times but you'll be lucky at others. You'll generally remember the unlucky times a lot more than the others (i know i do) but that's only a psychological problem. Over a lot of fights, they do work out the same.
5° You do know that you are going to go from lunar to solar to lunar to solar anyway ? Since 3.2 the CD between lunar and solar isn't shared, so there's no point in casting non-eclipse'd SF's after having just ended a solar eclipse, what you want to do is continue with wrath up till lunar procs, switch to SF, continue SF up till solar procs, and so on (because even if one nuke's dps is lower than the other, the eclipse'd version is better than both and thus always desirable)
The mecanics of Eclipse since the last patch make it so that you spend an equal time under each Eclipse anyway, so there isn't much point to trying to understand which is the best (the only exception being fights with phase changes long enough that the CD resets and you can choose again on which Eclipse to start)
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