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Blood Draining to Weapon for Tanking?
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Post by
453738
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
hashmel
blood draining is just not as good as blade warding/stoneskin gargoyle/mongoose to their respective tanks
its proc chance is low enough that you can't always maintain a full stack of blood reserve and unless you frequently dip below 35% health it's useless
blade warding and mongoose increase their respective tank's avoidance and threat while slightly boosting overall raid dps and the added avoidance may prevent the tank from ever dipping below 35% for blood draining to be an option
stoneskin gargoyle increases the tank's health, avoidance, may be needed to stay def capped, and if not needed would be replaced by swardshattering over blood draining due to the increased avoidance and mitigation from blood that once again may prevent blood draining from ever being an option
a Dwield frost tank would most likely opt for the upcoming 1 handed stoneskin gargoyle rune or swordbreaking for the same reasons stated above
blood draining is primarily a solo/pvp enchant as in both those situations your health can vary and any and all healing is a welcome sign where it is more competative with the other tanking chants
Post by
hatman555
In the past Blood Draining was not a smart chant because it would bring paladins back up to the dreaded 36% area, where we would take a full hits worth of damage because in those days
Ardent Defender
did not work the way it does now. Now that it does tho, Blood draining can be a usefull enchant for those searching for even more effecitve health.
Do I need to explain the Ardent Defender change?
Cheers,
Hat
Post by
453738
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
hatman555
Here is the problem and the debat about enchants Muireadhach.
In my opinion you have 3 to choose from.
Enchant Weapon - Blade Ward
Enchant Weapon - Blood Draining
Enchant Weapon - Mongoose
Each have there gains and there is a big debate over them. I'm sure there will be main replys to this, if people are truly interested. Alot of this debate comes because of the changes made to the enchants and other abilities over time.
Blade Ward for example when it frist was introduce to the game had a very bad proc chance. it had about a 10% uptime from what I read. I know for a fact that this has changed tho and its proc rate has been increase. I can not tell you for sure tho what that rate is now, I can only say that from the people that use it, i have heard that while it is not up constantly it has for them on occastion stack up to 3 time.
Since you are a paladin I will explain the change to Ardent Defender just so you understand. In the past Ardent defender would only reduce damage from an incoming hit when at or below 35%. Therefore if you are at 36% and you take a hit for 37% damage you would die. They changed this however and now Ardent defender reduces the damage of a hit when that hit would take you below 35%. Now if you are at 36% and you take a 37% hit you would recive full damage for the 2% that takes you to 35 and then 20% reduced damage on the remaining 35% of that damage. and you would thus survive the hit.
Blood draining WAS not a good choise for us because at 35% when we would take less damage for our next hit would bring you back up to 36-37%, a terrible place for a paladin to be. Yet because of the change for AD, there is no danger zone, and Blood draining is viable.
The pros for BD are that it will naturally increase your effetive healt giving you additional health when you need it most.
The cons are, it is a self healing chant. And strick advocates of classes and raid machines would argue that healing is for the healers and tanking is for the tanks. That means that the tank should get an enchante that would help him mitigate or avoid damage, not get a chante that provies a weak level of healing. This is the main reason why
Enchant Weapon - Lifeward
is a bad choice.
The last chant on the list there is the tradition Mongoos from BC. It has long been a staple of gaunentied agility. Because of its history its uptime is well documented and many tanks like to know exactly what they are getting from a chant.
Hope that helps,
Cheers,
Hat
p.s. sorry for spelling, and wall of text
Post by
453738
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
388951
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Decimater
So the main argument is do i trust the healers enough to just focus on my tanking?
You'd better. Nobody else is going to be keeping you alive. The main issue is that if your health is hitting 35%, you need big, fat heals coming your way, not half a healing potion. It's a clever idea, but one that just doesn't work out in practice.
I don't think the question is whether you 'trust' your healers enough to keep you up, because BD is a situational enchant. In normal(perfect) circumstances you're not going to see it, but when !@#$ hits the fan and healers are going crazy trying to keep up with damage on everyone, this enchant can give you the time needed for healers to reach you with that crucial heal. In conjunction with Ardent Defender it just makes you harder to finish off. My pally tank is also an alchemist/herbalist so that's adding to my considerable self healing ability.
Much better than a bit of parry% or dodge% in my opinion. It's effectiveness is centered on o ^&*! scenarios rather than spread out in a flat random proc.
I like the redness too!
Post by
388951
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ArgentSun
Does anybody have the numbers for Mongoose at level 80?
On topic, I prefer Blood Draining over Blade Ward. It's a very small difference, and both have a chance to save your life - just in different situations. But both are viable.
Post by
Quest
Does anybody have the numbers for Mongoose at level 80?
On topic, I prefer Blood Draining over Blade Ward. It's a very small difference, and both have a chance to save your life - just in different situations. But both are viable.
Here
you go good sir.
Post by
hatman555
WOW!
This latest post by theck is amazing. This is a good find there quest.
Im going to link a few things here and then respond see if people read it the same way i do.
Theck recalculates the up-time for mongooss. And posts 2 outcomes.
Mongoose uptime assuming HV application does
not
proc the buff: uptime = 33.6%
HV = Holy Vengeance which is the DOT that is applied to a target by
Seal of Vengeance
Now if you are not a paladin then your not going to be adding this dot to the boss you are fighthing and your going to get a 33.6% uptime.
BUT.... he continues.
Mongoose uptime assuming HV application
does
proc the buff: uptime = 52.98%
Thus:
Effective passive worth of Mongoose give the above uptime:
Agility: 120 * 0.5298 = 63.5729 agility, before kings
2% haste: 50.4462 * 0.5298 = 26.7251 haste rating.
Is anyone else really thinking about mongoose now?
Cheers,
Hat
Post by
452948
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Quest
No. Just put mongoose on like I said. I dont understand the BS about "play style". You run upto #$%^ and you hit it in a 969 rotation.
The only 'personal choice' thing about the three is how they look.
Post by
blademeld
Mongoose for survival, Potency/Accuracy for threat.
Always has been, always will be.
Post by
Quest
Depends on if youre hitcapped. Also, mongoose is no slouch in the TPS department, doing about 90% of Accuracy (if not hitcapped, it does more if you are)
I would like to see an expertise version of Accuracy.
Post by
blademeld
I would like to see tanking version of potency for WotLK levels.
Post by
388951
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Quest
I would like to see tanking version of potency for WotLK levels.
Id like to see BS and all the other crafting professions get actual crafting mechanics aside from set in stone things. I believe BS will be able to in a limited way, but we need more profession flexibility.
Going by how potency is, a lvl 80 version would have 45 str.
Blizzard is just too scared of things getting out of hand, but if they limit things correctly, it cant.
Post by
388951
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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