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Blizzard's Rights to the Lore
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Post by
Ganit
I often see threads about how Wrath killed the lore, or how the draenie were "shoe-horned" in and several other popular (Worgen?) topics about how Blizzard has ruined their lore in some form or function. Now, before I continue, let me mention this thread isn't intended to debate any of those topics specifically. This thread is to debate just how much "wiggle-room" Blizzard should have with their lore.
Do you think they should change it as they see fit? So long as they can write some form of a reason for the retcon. I mean it is a universe they created. So, is it really so terrible of them to go back and say "Well, we were headed down this path but we actually decided to do something else. Yeah, we know the original back-story doesn't make sense, but we'll do a little re-write and it'll be ok?"
I'm just wondering what you guys think. I personally believe Blizzard can do about what they want and I won't get upset. It's their game and if they feel the need to re-write history, so be it. So long as there's a decently re-crafted back-story to the change.
Anyway, lay it on me. How far do you think Blizzard should be allowed to go in terms of retconning? And, don't be lazy, tell how you decided that.
Post by
R1TeR
well i think they can do really whatever they want with the lore
Post by
Adamsm
I don't mind if Blizzard retcon's stuff, as long as what their changing makes sense. The Draenei retcon is fairly good, but it leaves just the Dreadlords as the corrupters of Sargeras, but I do enjoy the other addition they've added into the entire Orc and Draenor lore. The worgen and goblin doesn't really bother me, I like the altered Lore, the curse instead of all interdimensional demon creatures; even if it does open the door for the Twilight Fanboys and Girls to make shiney Werewolves in Warcraft.
I'm just glad for Cataclysm there still keeping the Destroyer the same bad arse monster he always has been.
Post by
Ganit
Where's Highvoltage when you need 'im? I know he'd have an opinion here.
Post by
Skreeran
The thing is though, that whether it's their lore or not, it does hurt if/when they ruin it.
Example: Garrosh becomes Warchief, Thrall becomes Guardian, and we're the official Bad Guys™ again.
That's not fair to me. I don't want to be the bad guys. I constantly argue with Danial Whitcomb (the author of the Varian is Right article) and his followers who say the Horde is evil while the Alliance is good. I see their point of view, but they don't seem see mine. Whether the Horde is right in the Broken Front, many orcs, including my characters who I'm quite attached to, are trying to redeem their reputation and show that Orcs can overcome their past. And up until right before WotLK it seemed like they were close to finally proving that...
But then with WotLK and Cataclysm, all I see is Thrall NOT keeping Garrosh under control, the Horde getting blamed for the Wrathgate, the Broken Front, the Dalaran incident, Garrosh's behavior in the Tournament, all with Thrall seemingly doing nothing about it.
That hurts because while I continue to fight for the Horde being good, it seems like Blizzard is coming in a knocking me down and saying "This is how it is now, whether you like it or not," patting the Alliance-only fanboys on the back at the same time.
And then in Cataclysm it looks like it's only going to get worse. Thrall is CAPTURED by the Alliance (don't get me started on wondering how that happened), and Garrosh levels Ashenvale, starts full-scale war on the Alliance, seemingly justifying Varian, it's just too much for me.
It seems like the logical lore that's naturally come from Lord of the Clans and Warcraft 3 has been outvoted with "put the War back in Warcraft" fan sentiment, and Blizzard wants to please those fans. There just doesn't seem room for me.
Post by
R1TeR
its all just shades of gray to me some people are gonna say alliance are good horde are bad and vice versa but you can always point out the good guys and bad guys in each faction
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
They've always changed things the way they see fit. See the retcons from Warcraft 1 - 2 - 3 and you'll realise that its a common thing.
has been outvoted with "put the War back in Warcraft" fan sentiment, and Blizzard wants to please those fans. There just doesn't seem room for me.
I'm optimistic fellow Hordie. Things won't go that way to the end. The "vile" Forsaken are attacking poor Gilneas and the Orcs are destroying Ashenvale. Nothing more.
And I'm a blood elf... I dare not to look at whatever became of Silvermoon, unless....And what's the Alliance done? Other than capturing Thrall, which seems to be a fairly isolated incident.
It just seems to me that it's gone back to Warcraft: Orc & Humans, where the bloodthirsty orcs are attacking the noble humans for no reason.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
hymer
I'm not sure how deep in RP you are, but isn't it possible to play a Hordie who wants to continue Thrall's legacy? Your leader may be out of his mind, but isn't that just an opportunity for some resistance?
Maybe Blizz will allow more choice in what path your character takes. Maybe some quest lines will be for hawks, some for doves. Maybe some quests will actually involve some choice?
Post by
Dralas
And then in Cataclysm it looks like it's only going to get worse.
Thrall is CAPTURED by the Alliance
(don't get me started on wondering how that happened), and Garrosh levels Ashenvale, starts full-scale war on the Alliance, seemingly justifying Varian, it's just too much for me....
What the hell? Blizz is smoking something good apparently...
Even as a Varian supporter, I don't exactly see that event leading to anything good.
Post by
hymer
Maybe Thrall can talk to Varian when he sees all the destruction of the conflict? Maybe together they depose Garrosh? There might be light at the end of the tunnel.
Post by
Skreeran
I actually had been making a Official WoW Forums Thread on this topic when I posted earlier, and now it's done. Right
here
...
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ArgentSun
How am I missing all this Lore?
Post by
taurenmoo812
They've always changed things the way they see fit. See the retcons from Warcraft 1 - 2 - 3 and you'll realise that its a common thing.
has been outvoted with "put the War back in Warcraft" fan sentiment, and Blizzard wants to please those fans. There just doesn't seem room for me.
I'm optimistic fellow Hordie. Things won't go that way to the end. The "vile" Forsaken are attacking poor Gilneas and the Orcs are destroying Ashenvale. Nothing more.
And I'm a blood elf... I dare not to look at whatever became of Silvermoon, unless....And what's the Alliance done? Other than capturing Thrall, which seems to be a fairly isolated incident.
It just seems to me that it's gone back to Warcraft: Orc & Humans, where the bloodthirsty orcs are attacking the noble humans for no reason.
This is my take on it too Skreeran. It seems blizzard make the excuse that they want to inject the notions of pvp back into the horde vs alliance warfair, but there method of doing it is proving they lack the decent writers to pull it off, and are reduced to taking the warcraft lore a huge step back after it has progressed so far.
In orcs and humans, you would have the orcs played as the lord of the rings style orcish bad guys, and the humans playing as the lord of the rings style good guys. For a starting game it shows something that had promise to progress, and eventully pad out the story of 'ok, just why are the orcs so #$%^ed off' and 'ok, are the alliance so innocent after all'.
And so the plot progressed on from being a cheesey rip off from lord of the rings, to having its own lore, characters, back stories and reasons for them being what they were. The 'bad guys' horde suddenly came about as not being the bad guys anymore, and the alliance as not being the golden 'save the world' good guys all the time.
Lets put it in a more simple term. An orc warrior goes to Terrokar forest and speaks with a young human child, and has to save other children from there capture. Or he find the spirit of a lost young girl in the plaguelands, and finds peices of her lost doll to give to her, enough to feel remorse for her.
How then can it just be turned that an orc who can do things like this, can just revert back to being some crazed and stupid, savage orc, just because some rage !@#$% like Garrosh tells him to go kill?
Post by
taurenmoo812
Thrall was, supposedly, captured and then freed by the Bligewater. He's far from Varian now =D.
Lets just say this event is done as a means for the goblins who show there loyalty to the horde, and so has to be something drematic, more so then just the blood elves 'showing up' and asking to be let in.
And what could score the goblins more points then rescuing the warchief?
Post by
184848
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
mgman640
IMO the current followers of Thrall will continue to follow Thrall's teachings of peace, even if he is gone and Garrosh is the leader. Sure there might be some orcs who follow Garrosh and say "GRR KILL HUMAN!," but I think the majority that follow Thrall now (me!) will in fact resist Garrosh's rule and try to find peaceful resolutions.
Post by
Arkham
It seems like the logical lore that's naturally come from Lord of the Clans and Warcraft 3 has been outvoted with "put the War back in Warcraft" fan sentiment, and Blizzard wants to please those fans.
There just doesn't seem room for me.
How do you think those of us who
liked
the evil Old Horde have felt, ever since Warcraft 3? Huh? Probably about the same as you do.
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