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Backstab + Envenom raid Built
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Post by
Vitank
Well, wife and i raid quite a bit. In raid, we usually have 3 rogues (her incluede) and 1 hunter at least, sometimes 2.
The question is, would bringing her to this built
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0gc0EZZqrccMhRoekt
She's currently speced Dagger combat rogue as compodium propose.
There are few points that could be moved around i'm sure in the subtlety tree but you fellows get the gist of it.
She'd open with ambush (yes more agro but in raid with me tanking i'm fine to hold it since she can warm me of ambush)
Then do BS + EV (When 5 combo / poison up) rotation for DPS and have Hemo refresh when possible be a viable built to boost overall DPS.
This is her profile ==>
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Cenarius&n=Jynnx
She also has the +5 dmg to neck and the +7 dmg to trinket to help boost those BS max.
Things to take in consideration as well, is double Mongoose proc which is multiplied by Deadlinest.
Would love constructive criticisms post and tips. She's currently averaging good 500+ DPS on boss but we'd wanted to see if you think 2.3.2 changes a bit Dagger / BS built for raiding and would make hemo built maybe even .... Viable now in PvE.
We might even go right ahead and try it this week in kara will see.
Post by
HigginZ
with any build, but especialy with deadliness improving AP.. i'd say keeping SnD and Rupture up would demolish the DPS done by envenom, not to mention not having to take time to restack poisons..
Post by
Vitank
Humm, so that would make a change in her DPS value from BS dmg to more pure melee dmg. Even without offhand improve it would still be viable you think.
So it would require to do that to be more efficient drop 5 from envenom ? to SnD improve or something.
Just curious if the Improve Envenom and slow combo building of Hemo > BS > BS > BS > BS > EV rotation much more viable with imp EV or just a wast.
Post by
Remx
I can't view your wife's armoury, so I can't comment on whether or not her DPS could be improved through gear, but I can help you with her spec. If she wants to raid with daggers I'd suggest staying as combat daggers, or if she wants a change then combat mutilate. If neither of those take her fancy then subtlety mutilate might, it's inferior to combat mutilate for PVE but Karazhan is a pretty forgiving instance and she would still do alright. All of these builds are in the compendium.
She could spec shadowstep daggers, or alternatively shadowstep hemo (I don't recommend fusing them), but she would notice a significant loss in DPS.
If she's set on shadowstep,
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhfV0bVZxMe0MGRoxst
would be her best bet (note that it's not a dagger build). If she's completely, utterly, absolutely dead-set on shadowstep daggers then
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0efotZZEMccMhR0xst
would be the best of the worst.
If she wants to completely optimise her DPS, she can do so with combat daggers. To reiterate, combat daggers > combat mutilate > subtlety mutilate > shadowstep hemo > shadowstep daggers.
Tell her not to use envenom unless she's playing with a mutilate build and using deadly poison on both hands.
Post by
Vitank
I agree with you completely Remx, thanks for all the explanations.
One thing that i want to know is:
Is the drop in in HER DPS compensated by the increase of raid DPS.
I'm looking at it more on the overall DPS output of raid ? I mean what is the # of melee required for making Hemo a viable option in raid? 3 other melee up ? 4 other melee up ? only viable in 25 man ?
Like i said 90% of time we have 1 hunter and 2 combat rogue with her on raid. We've done all way up to prince like this and works a charm. Now i've found that with only "Gift of arath" pots on me the tank, boost DPS by a nice margin when boss is not immune to it. I would imagine 30+ each hit vice 8 would be a HUGE boost would it not ?
Post by
Remx
I agree with you completely Remx, thanks for all the explanations.
One thing that i want to know is:
Is the drop in in HER DPS compensated by the increase of raid DPS.
With a shadowstep build, no. With a hemo sword build, yes;
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0eboZhfV0bVzLMZEMc0MhMo
Post by
24754
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Remx
Except..remember with a hemo build you don't want daggers right? I thought that was fist/sword only..the slower weapons.
Which is why I didn't suggest a hemo build with daggers.
Post by
Vitank
Thanks all for the help on this. I think this patch probly need some testing on this wiht that change to Sinister's Calling.
Remx, thanks so much for fast reply and understanding of class. I'm gonna run some numbers with some built i think and test with 2 combat rogues and 2 healer vs me.
Its not gonna give me definitive numbers vs trash / boss but will give me a relative idea of how much DPS boost is the hemo for each rogue. (one is mace combat spec, one sword combat spec, both with similar DPS).
I still think that there is something fishy about this new change that Blizz put in for making this more PvE viable.
I'm not after proving noone wrong or right, just want to see what is the impact of that change and how much does it gimp the rogue taking it for PvE.
I'm a bit of number crunsher i supposed so i'll let ya all know what i come up with.
Using wife's toon
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Cenarius&n=Jynnx
Post by
Remx
Keep in mind that from now onwards hemorrhage will benefit from its own buff (whereas previously it had not), so that's a plus.
Post by
Vitank
Now here is an other question:
Hemo buff (+42) is it multiplyed by abilities or pure addition.
IE. for BS
Multiplied: * BS modifier
Addition: ( * BS modifier) + 42
And also, Shapening stones, +melee damage items like that +7 trinket and +5 neck ? is it same rule as above ? Multiply or Add ?
Post by
Remx
Addition for the debuff and multiplication for +melee damage items.
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