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Avenging Wrath and Seal of Vengeance
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Post by
239153
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
1) I assume anything that worked before regarding the DoT wouldn't change. I could be wrong though.
2) Unless you're downing a boss in <2 minutes, your AW will be off cooldown long before then. More concern would be wasting a couple of seconds of AW before engaging.
Post by
123609
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
svirve
Some math on the subject.
TL;DR (look at the bottom).
Assumptions:
4000 AP, 1200 SP
Fight is exactly 2 minutes long.
Target is humanoid
SoV Damage: || (0,013*1200 + 0,025*4000)*5 = 578
That's each tick, adding in talents.
578*1,15*1,06*1,06*1,03*1,09=838,496264084
Adding in wings.
838,496264084*1,2=1006,1955169008
Breaking it down to damage per second.
838,496264084/3=279,49875469466666666666666666667
1006,1955169008/3=335,3985056336
An increase of 55,8997509389333333333333333333 DPS.
Same assumptions as before.
HoW Damage: to || 1139+0,15*1200+0,15*4000 to 1257+0,15*1200+0,15*4000
1919 to 2037 Avg hit = 1978
Adding in talents.
1978*1,06*1,06*1,03*1,09=2495,17919416
Adding in wings
2495,17919416*1,2=2994,215032992
Breaking it down to damage per second.
2495,17919416/6=415,86319902666666666666666666667
2994,215032992/6=499,035838832
An increase of 83,1726398053333333333333333333 DPS.
First glance would say that using it during the last burst for HoW is better than using it at the beginning with SoV.
But HoW is only usable for the last 20% thus lets see what the net gain in damage done is.
Same assumptions as before.
Adding also that the raid has a perfectly consistent DPS (each percent of the targets HP takes exactly 1.2 seconds).
55,8997509389333333333333333333*120 = 6707,970112671999999999999999996 increased damage done.
83,1726398053333333333333333333*24 = 1996,1433553279999999999999999992 increased damage done.
The difference is almost 5000 damage done. Which might not seem like much but if you're min/maxing it's going to make a difference. If you were to take the extra damage you get from using wings during the last 20% it would even out to a 16.6(....) dps increase over the entire fight.
TL;DR You're better off using it in the start to increase SoV damage
P.S. I know some of the math is kinda rough (like the increase in damage for HoW should only be 20 sec and not 24) but it does prove a point without being too off.
P.P.S. i only assumed a full stack of vengeance but come to think of it. Maybe it shouldnt be added in the SoV calc since you're not that likely to have a full stack at the start of combat. Unless you've been working on your
achievements
. Though i want to recall it being added even if the dot was already up.
Post by
Squishalot
578*1,15*1,06*1,06*1,03*1,09=838,496264084
I see Seals of the Pure, I see Sanctified Retribution and Vengeance, but what are the 1.06's?
Edit: Crusade and Two Handed Weapon Spec? Crusade, yes. Two-handed weapon spec needs to be taken out though - applies to weapon damage only.
Building up stacks reduces the benefit by 4/5 + 3/5 + 2/5 + 1/5 = 2 full ticks worth of damage. So about that's about 340 damage, based on the incremental benefit that AW gives to SoV in that period of time. Also, HoW is fine at 24 seconds, provided that you hit HoW the moment it comes off CD, and the moment the GCD from AW finishes. You can get your first one in at 1.5, then 7.5, 13.5 and 19.5, giving you half a second of lag time. 24secs will be the 'effective CD' benefit.
Note though - you haven't added in crit. SoV ticks can't crit, HoW can and will crit often, especially since you'll get +50% crit from talents.
Post by
65116
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
Is this a change, or was it never the case in the first place and people didn't follow their damage meters properly?
Post by
svirve
Two-handed weapon spec needs to be taken out though - applies to weapon damage only.
True dat but i added it to both so no big mistake.
Building up stacks reduces the benefit by 4/5 + 3/5 + 2/5 + 1/5 = 2 full ticks worth of damage. So about that's about 340 damage, based on the incremental benefit that AW gives to SoV in that period of time.
I would almost call it negligable but seeing as SoV has a 5000 damage lead it's not going to be ground breaking.
Also, HoW is fine at 24 seconds, provided that you hit HoW the moment it comes off CD, and the moment the GCD from AW finishes. You can get your first one in at 1.5, then 7.5, 13.5 and 19.5, giving you half a second of lag time. 24secs will be the 'effective CD' benefit.
Yea but the problem is with AW only lasting for 20 sec, not 24 ;p
Post by
65116
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
AW isn't on GCD for the record.
My bad. I don't tend to notice when I play Ret - I just faceroll ;p
Yea but the problem is with AW only lasting for 20 sec, not 24 ;p
Yeah, but the DPS increase is as if it were over 24 seconds, because it's 4 uses of HoW. Otherwise, your DPS increase over 20 seconds should be higher. Net damage is still the same.
Post by
svirve
Yea but the problem is with AW only lasting for 20 sec, not 24 ;p
Yeah, but the DPS increase is as if it were over 24 seconds, because it's 4 uses of HoW. Otherwise, your DPS increase over 20 seconds should be higher. Net damage is still the same.
Doesn't everyones HoW get an odd 6sec CD when the mob drops to 20%? >.<
Anyways it's pretty moot now since AW doesnt increase dot damage for the full duration of the SoV dot.
Post by
JemiS
How does that make any sense?
4 uses of HoW is 20 seconds. Where are you getting the effective 24 seconds?
Post by
Jediah
How does that make any sense?
4 uses of HoW is 20 seconds. Where are you getting the effective 24 seconds?
He's adding in an extra HoW cooldown. I don't know why; there's only three HoW cooldowns between the four HoW's used in a 20 second period. HoW / CD / HoW / CD / HoW / CD / HoW.
Post by
svirve
Ah right you are.. Which means i was right from the start with that it shouldn't be 24 seconds ;p
It's a minor mistake and changes the increased damage done by HoW to 1497,1075164959999999999999999994 instead.
Post by
360643
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
svirve
Actually that's math that a ten year old could apply, no offence. Simple multiplication nothing else.
It's just a matter of knowing how to apply the math. I was also being ridiculously precise with the numbers. You could probably slice off 10 (as much as 30 on some) decimals on all of them which makes it all look alot easier.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Actually that's math that a
ten year old
could apply, no
offence
. Simple multiplication nothing else.
It's just a matter of knowing how to apply the math. I was also being ridiculously precise with the numbers. You could probably slice off 10 (as
much
as 30 on some) decimals on all of them which makes it all look
alot
easier.
It's also spelling and grammar a ten-year-old could apply, no offense.
(Sorry, couldn't resist)
Post by
Squishalot
*shakes head* Sorry, both of you guys, back to year 4 for you! (Or whatever school grade you're in in the countries you live.)
Suppose HoW does 2495.17919416 damage.
Avenging Wrath pushes that up to 2994.215032992 damage.
Over the 20 seconds, you can cast 4 Hammers of Wrath. Total damage: 2495.17919416 * 4 = 9980.71677664
With Avenging Wrath, that damage goes to 2994.215032992 * 4 = 11976.8601319
Damage difference: 1996.14, which means that your original math and using an effective CD of 4 * 6 = 24 secs was correct.
You're running around in circles confusing yourself by converting to DPS. If you convert to DPS, you have to assume that you use the effective CD, being the actual skill CD multiplied by the number of times you use it. Otherwise, you're cutting off 4 seconds of DPS that you've done by using the ability for the 4th time.
@ Hyperspacerebel - Isn't offense one of the words spelt differently between countries? As for ten-year-old vs ten year old, either form is generally acceptable. I try to avoid it by referring instead to "math that a primary school kid could apply".
Post by
149504
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
svirve
Actually that's math that a
ten year old
could apply, no
offence
. Simple multiplication nothing else.
It's just a matter of knowing how to apply the math. I was also being ridiculously precise with the numbers. You could probably slice off 10 (as
much
as 30 on some) decimals on all of them which makes it all look
alot
easier.
It's also spelling and grammar a ten-year-old could apply, no offense.
(Sorry, couldn't resist)
Offence is very correct in english (UK) though it's spelled offense in the US.
As for "ten-year-old" vs "ten year old", like squishy said, they are both generally acceptable.
Can't see what's grammatically wrong with "much" though. Could it be spelled differently in the US?
I don't claim that i'm grammaticaly correct nor was i trying to be a jerk.
He said it was complicated and I simply explained that it's actually really easy math and the only reason to it seeming complicated is because I used up to 30 decimals precision at times.
Sure it could've been presented in a different manner but i opted to use an analogy.
Suppose HoW does 2495.17919416 damage.
Avenging Wrath pushes that up to 2994.215032992 damage.
Over the 20 seconds, you can cast 4 Hammers of Wrath. Total damage: 2495.17919416 * 4 = 9980.71677664
With Avenging Wrath, that damage goes to 2994.215032992 * 4 = 11976.8601319
Damage difference: 1996.14, which means that your original math and using an effective CD of 4 * 6 = 24 secs was correct.
Moar decimals so wii lookz zmartz!
I'll just stop spinning in circles now with this since we've already concluded that it's all moot.
But you do are right with using the 24 sec CD instead of 20/18.
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