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Arms DPS: Discussion
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Post by
244714
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Post by
Foopeemoa
It depends on what type of attack is dodged, and when the OP proc occurs relative to a TfB proc that would occur anyway. I feel that expertise is still important for Arms, but being "near" the cap is likely more important than being at the cap, unlike Fury.
To me it depends if you are the gambling type or not. If you are near the cap, you may go some fights without any dodges, or you might convert an autoattack hit to an OP. Other fights you may get several, and be losing an Execute or MS hit and having that OP appear from a TfB proc anyway.
Post by
200565
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213330
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Post by
244714
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244714
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226992
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Post by
marklartank
the biggest problem with sword spec seems to be the internal cooldown.
as far as dodges helping your dps, i don't think so. even if you don't lose much spreadsheet dps with some dodges, it will definitely hurt your rage generation if your white swings are being dodged.
the only reason why expertise could be slightly less valuable for arms is that
overpower
can't be dodged anyway, so expertise will not affect that one attack.
Post by
244714
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Post by
marklartank
true, a dodge is slightly better than a miss as arms.
so hit > expertise, but it's still not a good thing to be dodged.
Post by
Porcell
so hit > expertise, but it's still not a good thing to be dodged.
This can not be stressed enough. I see a lot of rationalizing "Hey, if I get dodged, I can overpower so it's not so bad." Yes, yes it is bad. Besides the fact of possibly somehow wasting TfB due to a "real" overpower, when you get dodged you are either 1) wasting rage with no return or 2) missing a white it and getting no rage.
Getting dodged is a DPS loss, no matter which way you cut it. Getting to overpower isn't even really mitigating it, since you were going to use that Global for another ability anyway. So you get to Overpower instead of Slam... you are ignoring the big void of damage that happened 1.5 seconds ago.
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244714
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Post by
309875
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Post by
blueocean
There are a few factors. I'm going gut here, so my theorycrafting may be off:
1) Overpower has a 5 second cooldown. TfB procs every 6 seconds. It's going to take few full rotations before you get that "extra" OP proc and for that to happen you'd have to have had so many dodges, I'd boot you from the raid for low DPS. The Arms rotation being pretty tied to cooldowns, your Overpower proc for a dodge would likely come up anyway from TfB.
2) Missed white attack = no rage for that attack = lower dps. If you're like me, you're tossing in Heroic Strikes rage permitting and now you'll have to hold back to recharge.
3) If the missed attack was a refresh on Rend, you've screwed up your cycle pretty badly.
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=46860
Overpower has 1 second cooldown in arms...
But anyway, having a miss or dodge is always bad, you loose rage + slams (you should be slamming when you have nothing else to do), and having an overpower doesn't change the fact that you lost a lot of damage.
Post by
Porcell
But anyway, having a miss or dodge is always bad, you loose rage + slams (you should be slamming when you have nothing else to do), and having an overpower doesn't change the fact that you lost a lot of damage.
Exactly. Due to the nature of the Arms "rotation" it's difficult to precisely nail down the exact DPS loss from being dodged. Suffice it to say that a dodge leaves a gap in your damage stream that you will never be able to make up.
Post by
Rubendesmet619
If you wanne gain somthing from a dodge that OP has to do the damage of the missed atack+the atack you were going to do anyway.
f.ex. time for execute+mortal strike right after you think.
Execute get dodges and you overpower.
instead of execute(11k)+mortal strike(10k) you get one OP for around 9k.
Arms is GCD capped, missing out on one global=a DPS los in every way.
Post by
marklartank
Depends really. If the following Overpower does more damage than the dodged attack I would say it's not a total DPS loss. But then again, you wouldn't know how much damage the dodged attack would do, because there is no system that can determine that, unless you calculate the average damage from that attack and compare.
but you're not even considering the rage loss from a miss. single we're only swinging a single weapon (unlike fury), we get a big chunk of rage once every ~3.5 seconds. if you miss one of those, that means 7 seconds of no rage generation, so you are more than likely going to miss a GCD attack anyway in addition to the missed swing. an extra overpower is not going to make up for that.
Post by
244714
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Post by
marklartank
Dodge and Miss are two different things. Dodge is when the enemy dodges your attack due to quick reflexes or self awareness, Miss is when you swing at them and just fail at hitting them because you have poor accuracy and has nothing to do with them moving out of the way or trying to avoid it.
You can somewhat make up for a dodge as Arms, but not for a miss. Besides, you should be hit capped anyway.
a miss or a dodge have the same effect to your white swings (and most other attacks as well). overpower is a rare exception that treats a dodge and a miss differently.
Post by
trademen
from my limited experence with my warrior, I see it as this...
If you are dodged you are basicly trading a slam for an OP. Arms warriors are basicly eating their GCD 100% of the time, so if you were not dodged and going to do an OP you were probably going to slam (assuming that MS/Exe were not up, and that you did not missed with a MS/Exe). For this "natural" OP to be worth the lost hit, you would need for your OP to hit for at least as much as your Slam plus an auto attack, also you have a net loss of rage compared to using slam after a successful auto attack.
I could be way off here, my arms warrior is only level 77, so I'm not at the point where I'm stressing this stuff in endgame yet.
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