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Are we really needed in a raid these day?
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Post by
229797
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Post by
426565
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Post by
Meldiren
Simple answer is yes. I do more damage than anyone else in my guild. And damage drops bosses. . Plus, being in mail, I stay alive longer than the squishy mages and locks.
Post by
436501
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Post by
159409
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Post by
catlady
Except for a few fights, priests (preferably shadow) on the instructor, hunters for frost traps or shamans with earthbind on gluth, paladins (or other qualified class) tanking the back on horsemen, I dont think ANY class is is essential. And, with the exception of the priests, all of the other classes had an alternative, or more than 1.
I havent progressed too far in Uludar, so I cant say, but I think the intention with this expansion was to make no 1 class essential. And they have mostly accomplished that, except a paladin's buff is just too key.
I have run many things without mages, mage food isnt a raid-breaker. Nor is having a lock summon, or a healthstone.
These are nice to have, but then so is having an eng for repair bots--and I have never seen anyone spamming LFG going "need one dps for Uludar--eng skill required!"
SV hunters provide replenishment, MM trueshot, BM a non-stacking damage buff. (Though, it is weird, I thought I saw it proc and stack since the patch, but I am not sure)
Post by
izuul
Multiple paladins are essential because of their zomg-buffs that increase our DPS by ludicrous amounts.
Aside from that, there are very few important buffs/abilities that are exclusive to one class.
Post by
Meldiren
Except for a few fights, priests (preferably shadow) on the instructor, hunters for frost traps or shamans with earthbind on gluth, paladins (or other qualified class) tanking the back on horsemen, I dont think ANY class is is essential. And, with the exception of the priests, all of the other classes had an alternative, or more than 1.
I havent progressed too far in Uludar, so I cant say, but I think the intention with this expansion was to make no 1 class essential. And they have mostly accomplished that, except a paladin's buff is just too key.
I have run many things without mages, mage food isnt a raid-breaker. Nor is having a lock summon, or a healthstone.
These are nice to have, but then so is having an eng for repair bots--and I have never seen anyone spamming LFG going "need one dps for Uludar--eng skill required!"
SV hunters provide replenishment, MM trueshot, BM a non-stacking damage buff. (Though, it is weird, I thought I saw it proc and stack since the patch, but I am not sure)
We use hunters to tank back two bosses on 4 horsemen, with their gorillas, and a healer. Works great. When we get two stacks, we switch sides, then call our pets once we attack.
We also use hunters for kiting zombies during gluth. WE drop a frost trap in middle...and just run back and forth, gathering them up. When decimate hits, drop another frost trap, and Volley, along with mages using Blizzard (if they have a point or two in improved blizzard, it helps slow them even more).
I also have sent my pet in to pull aggro when a tank goes down, lasts long enough (then aggro shifts to me, I use deterrence) until tank can get battle rezzed. Have saved several wipes that way.
Post by
298296
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Post by
Meldiren
Multiple paladins are essential because of their zomg-buffs that increase our DPS by ludicrous amounts.
Aside from that, there are very few important buffs/abilities that are exclusive to one class.
their buffs are nice. Their damage sucks.
Post by
Meldiren
Yes. Because if a hunter gear drops, then it would go waste ;P
It's ALL hunter gear. ;)
Actually, I won a nice set of leather bracers in TOC this week, and passed them on to a Druid, simply because it did them more good than me.
i would HOPE that rogues and warriors would extend the same courtesy when bows/guns/xbows drop.
Post by
229797
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Post by
Meldiren
Indeed we are. until our guild had a minor parting of ways recently, the top damage doers were always the SV hunters. We lost two good ones. there are two of us left. And we finish 1-2 alot.
I do have a DK and a lock that can press me on some fights.
Post by
izuul
their buffs are nice. Their damage sucks.
So bring them in the form of tanks and healers.
Besides, our Ret does really respectable damage, and it's not like Hunters are top of the totem pole. Statistically, we have been pretty average in Ulduar. Go look up the numbers.
Post by
catlady
Except for a few fights, priests (preferably shadow) on the instructor, hunters for frost traps or shamans with earthbind on gluth, paladins (or other qualified class) tanking the back on horsemen, I dont think ANY class is is essential. And, with the exception of the priests, all of the other classes had an alternative, or more than 1.
I havent progressed too far in Uludar, so I cant say, but I think the intention with this expansion was to make no 1 class essential. And they have mostly accomplished that, except a paladin's buff is just too key.
I have run many things without mages, mage food isnt a raid-breaker. Nor is having a lock summon, or a healthstone.
These are nice to have, but then so is having an eng for repair bots--and I have never seen anyone spamming LFG going "need one dps for Uludar--eng skill required!"
SV hunters provide replenishment, MM trueshot, BM a non-stacking damage buff. (Though, it is weird, I thought I saw it proc and stack since the patch, but I am not sure)
We use hunters to tank back two bosses on 4 horsemen, with their gorillas, and a healer. Works great. When we get two stacks, we switch sides, then call our pets once we attack.
We also use hunters for kiting zombies during gluth. WE drop a frost trap in middle...and just run back and forth, gathering them up. When decimate hits, drop another frost trap, and Volley, along with mages using Blizzard (if they have a point or two in improved blizzard, it helps slow them even more).
I also have sent my pet in to pull aggro when a tank goes down, lasts long enough (then aggro shifts to me, I use deterrence) until tank can get battle rezzed. Have saved several wipes that way.
Oh yeah I know, I pettank the back frequently. I guess I really suck at expressing myself lol. What I mean is, there are no classes on any fight aside from priests on the instructor-- that I know of anyway--that are essential. That's why I said any qualified class. My whole point is that there are tons of raid roles, all of which can be filled by numerous classes.
You need to slow the chow on gluth. Hunters are great at it--but then, so are shamans. Mages too, probably--though I havent seen it done
You need to kite the chow after it has been slowed. Rets, healadins, DKS, hunters, mages, and shaman can all do a good job here. Possibly more classes. (note, it is even better for hunters now, last time I did it, I dropped a slow and an explosive trap, to help generate threat and keep them from rushing the healers)
You need someone to dispell the enrage on gluth. Rogues might be the best, but a hunter certainly gets the job done.
Back horseman tanking can be done by hunters, ret pallies, shaman, warlocks, death knights, and (on 10 man at least) boomkins, shadow & disp priests.
That was actually my point--but I sucked at saying it. :D
It isnt like BC where you needed a lock for Kara, or there was a boss you couldnt down. Or Gruul--where you needed a mage tank--dont have qualified mage in guild? Well you are &*!@ out o luck.
Post by
catlady
their buffs are nice. Their damage sucks.
So bring them in the form of tanks and healers.
Besides, our Ret does really respectable damage, and it's not like Hunters are top of the totem pole. Statistically, we have been pretty average in Ulduar. Go look up the numbers.
Specifically ret pallies give good buff though. 3% increased damage, unless you have a BM in your party, that is the only way to see it, and the retadin's is consistent--rather than proc-based.
They also provide 3% haste. Moonkins do too, but I am not sure if their aura is raid-wide, and if it is just spell haste. Also, Moonkin's aren't doing the best numbers now, so most I know have respecced resto, feral, or a dual of the 2.
Last, but not least, Rets are a consistant source of replenishment, and out-do an SV hunter in this I think, because the ret generally gets more out of judgements of the wise than a hunter gets out of hunting party.
But yes, I haven't seen a Ret in my guild top the boss charts on any fight, but his damage is good, and on certain fights--like lothab--shoots up. Their overall damage is always excellent, which sometimes causes them to get big heads.
Generally a 25 man can benefit from 5-6 pallies, (2 healers, 3 rets, 1 tank), which you cant say about hunters--or any other class really, except maybe druids (3 healers, 2 dps, either tank or 1 more healer). But then, druids and pallies are the only class that has 3 roles (4 sort of for druids) so it is natural that they would have more.
Post by
357881
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Post by
409528
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Post by
LoqueNahak
I still have to find a raid leader who does not want a hunter. So far I had zero problems. Raids and instances are mostly "charge the mobs and AOE to death" or similar. I rarely see any kind of CC (traps, sheep, mind control, fear, ...). To be honest, I see more hunter traps than other forms of CC. And yes: we have a very good survivability (mail, feign, ...) and we rarely get one-shotted like cloth wearers.
The modern WoW is made of DPS. If you can bring a decent dps, you're in almost always in.
Post by
Argg0
"We bring DPS"
"We are top"
"blah blah"
Lies. YOU may be top on your group, but hunters aren't.
If you are on top it's either Loatheb and you are a MM or you overgear and/or are better skilled than the others in the raid.
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/dps/all/7/0/3
We show up once in XT hard, and a few times on Archavon and Assembly of Iron. That it. That's how "good" our dps is.
That only thing we actually bring is a safer way to pull (MD, we do it better than Rogues) and DS for Yogg+0.
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