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Ardent Defender a Passive Huge Reward for Failure?
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Post by
146010
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Necrobat
Ardent defender has neither of those limitations.
2 minute ICD on the whole "I'm not going to die this time" part, which is easily the most controversial part of the talent.
Since I compare the 'not dying' part to a superior last stand that a) prevents you dying and b) gives you 30% of your hp back, and look at the warrior counterpart...
Last stand has a 3 minute cooldown when unglyphed and untalented (which is usually the case). So it is superior on that front too.
Would you really call it a 'limitation'? I mean really. :P
But you also have to remember, a warrior has LS up for 20 seconds. We can have AD pop and it be gone in a second afterwards; afterall, it's not boosting our EH, just giving a fall back if it's needed. Like someone said before, it's a reverse LS. It's 30% when we need it, but it doesn't boost us overall. Once it's gone... it's gone, and if it's off CD and the fight is still going, you know you're out of the woods at that point for the most part.
Post by
Orranis
'm !@#$ed off at how suck Vampiric Blood is
I think you need to learn how good VB actually is. Changing it from 2min to 1min was a very good chance.
Though BS seems to be that much better.
It's nice... But I can never actually use it in rotation because I always go "I culd use this.. but OH NOEZ what if my health goes down when I REALLY need it?" It's great, but then you compare it to AD.
Actually you can use it in a rotation. It's not really a big survival CD like IBF or AD.
In a fight like Jara i pop VB if there is two mistress up otherwise on infernals. On Hodir it almost perfectly fits for Frozen Blows..
Okay I'll change that.
I
can't use it in a cooldown. It just doesn't work for me. (Personality Wise)
Post by
Orranis
Ardent defender has neither of those limitations.
2 minute ICD on the whole "I'm not going to die this time" part, which is easily the most controversial part of the talent.
Since I compare the 'not dying' part to a superior last stand that a) prevents you dying and b) gives you 30% of your hp back, and look at the warrior counterpart...
Last stand has a 3 minute cooldown when unglyphed and untalented (which is usually the case). So it is superior on that front too.
Would you really call it a 'limitation'? I mean really. :P
But you also have to remember, a warrior has LS up for 20 seconds. We can have AD pop and it be gone in a second afterwards; afterall, it's not boosting our EH, just giving a fall back if it's needed. Like someone said before, it's a reverse LS. It's 30% when we need it, but it doesn't boost us overall. Once it's gone... it's gone, and if it's off CD and the fight is still going, you know you're out of the woods at that point for the most part.
It does boost your EH, not your health though. EH is amount of damage you can take before you die.
Post by
44284
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
146010
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Porcell
Warriors popping last stand usually do it so they get more health to hopefully give the healers time to compensate. Ardent defender does it automatically whenever you're about to die. Last stand doesn't provide a greater benefit once that bonus health is damaged away. The only difference is the warrior has to consciously use it, a paladin gets it as a freebie. And potentially the paladin version is much stronger. A boss hits you for 20k when you have 2k hp left, you take a 18k overkill then get healed back to 30% of your max. Last stand probably wouldn't save the warrior in that instance.
The difference is a warrior can use last stand to cooldown his way through hard hitting stretches of boss, like if he is the last in line tanking Gormok Heroic. He can pop Last Stand and sit at 67k health for 20 seconds, making himself healable through the spike damage should an Impale coincide with a melee hit and a Bleed tick. Or tanking Hardmode Iron Council, with Last Stand up he probably will not be oneshot. Or at the end of hardmode Thorim when tank damage gets really high, the extra health pool will make a warrior that much more healable during that 20 seconds. Or cooldowning a Vezax surge to ensure the tank is healable.
A lot of situations here where a full 20 seconds of an extra 15,000 health is really really useful, and thus the major difference between Last Stand and Ardent Defender.
Yes, Last Stand is used as an "Oh crap, I've been sitting at 12k health for about 2 seconds and I'm not happy about that, I'm going to hit Last Stand," but it is certainly also useful as the sustained health pool.
Ardent Defender is nice. It's limited and different than Last Stand, and while it's certainly an enviable talent, I like my Last Stand just the same.
One last thing; the problem with Ardent Defender is that it's passive and you have no control over it. The only way you get use out of it is if the tank was going to die. That's of limited use in my eyes. It covers for a mistake, honestly. Now, if it does go off and the raid somehow recovers and saves a wipe, then this is obviously the most godly of godly abilities in that situation. My reasoning is, though, that the tank shouldn't be in that situation in the first place.
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