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My problem with haste...
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Post by
Confuzed
ok. I'm trying to use logic here, but I'm not a very logical person. Anyway, most sites say the value of a haste point to a crit point is very close (almost negligable) yet.....haste doesn't give us Shadow priests alot of good use. VT and MB are already super quick with long cd's. So i mean 15% haste is pretty stupid in my opinion. The only other spell it affects is Mind Flay. Now, Mind Flay does get a good benefit from it, however it's only about a total of 30% roughly of our damage.....i STILL don't find it as effective as crit which is effective on ALL spells, and not just effective on one spell. And I was basing my gear on the values based on these so called "experts" but have been switching to as much crit gear as possible, and my DPS has increased phenomenally. Any thoughts? Is there something I'm overlooking? Perhaps all of the stat values I've seen are pre 3.1 but i checked after 3.1 and they were even closer. So....idk
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328067
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91278
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117913
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Post by
Paolo
Val to the rescue with real numbers, something we can actually sink our teeth into.
You've shown the value of haste vs. no haste, but not the comparative value of haste vs. crit. Given the same SP value that you've assumed for your haste calculation, what would the dps increase be with 410 points of crit and zero haste?
Pencils out, and....GO!
Post by
91278
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359449
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Post by
Confuzed
ok, I loved the post and I think it'll help alot. But first, who among us doesn't have latency on a high population realm in Ulduar? and thirdly, I don't think haste affects your GCD's anymore? And even if it did, you'd never be able to fight more MF in because the haste would decrease your GBC making MB available even sooner. I do appreciate the work you did though and I'd love to see haste vs. crit. I can understand some haste value, but the "experts" say it's damn near equal to crit value.
Post by
Confuzed
fit in* not fight, sorry
Post by
91278
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Post by
Confuzed
hmmmmm i just don't see that making that much of a difference compared to crit?
Post by
Ethix
Just to let you know. What Val said is completely right, but if you want to confirm for yourself with your gear how haste and crit scale with each-- maxdps.com (rough estimate) and Rawr.exe (precise) will show you.
http://www.codeplex.com/Rawr
does work for you. how nice...
Post by
Confuzed
ok, i think we veered off course. I know all of the theory and math and all of that. I understand it. But in theory and in practice are two different things. In practice, I find crit way more effective than haste. I do sport some haste (about 10-12%), but as I've been giving up alot of haste for crit, I find it to be more effective than the "experts say" I'd give up 5% haste for 3% crit easily. And thank you for the Rawr thing Ethix, quite helpful, Maxps.com is meh at best. used it a few times before.
Post by
Ethix
Theory and practice are something that are often hard to figure out for ones self. I can give you a personal example that may help you out.
I used to play a mage back in BC and in early wotlk. At the end of t5 and most of t6, haste started to appear on a lot of my items. I did not want to spend the dkp on them, because like you, I didn't believe it would be more effective than crit. Another mage who I used to normally beat out on the dps meters, started to pass me up because I took the crit items over the haste. He valued haste over crit. I gemmed for spell power and crit, and he gemmed for spell power and haste. We both had nearly identical item level.
Obviously, I had pretty much no haste, and he had about 11% haste. I could never beat him, and it was frustrating since my rotations were perfect and I considered myself to play my mage to the best a mage could be played. I started to pick up haste items as we finishing out BT. Once our haste levels were even, I started to regularly beat him on the meters.
Take it with a grain of salt.
Also, clearly do not value haste items over crit items if the crit item is a higher item level. A priest in my guild over values haste and tried to tell me how the t8.5 helm was worse than the t7.5 helm because it was crit instead of haste.
Post by
91278
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Post by
Confuzed
ah thank you for the last post Val. I didn't think of it that way. And thank you Ethix for your story and participation in this thread. I still think I'm gonna start stacking crit while keeping a bare minimum of haste. And actually my spell power had only gone up a negligable amount when i started switching from haste to crit. I'll post again in a couple weeks when i get my crit gear up and running.
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