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An article on Varian Wrynn being right
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Post by
437763
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
taurenmoo812
We never said they were.
You need to get over the Alliance and your tunnel vision about how all Orcs are evil, when we actually give evidence proving otherwise, your response is "But I r fanboy so Alliance and gd and Horde are evil, there's no disputing that point" Which is completely wrong and makes you look like a twat.
I'm not a Horde fanboy completely, but I can certainly see beyond most Humans' point of view.
You, Irinida my dear, win this argument completely. Although I am a horde fan boy obviously, I don't overlook what good people there are in the alliance, ones like Jaina, Brann, Malfurion (though he hasn't said he's offical alliance). I do draw to the fact most humans are narrow minded and have there blue blood attitude like admiral proudmoore had, but that doesn't mean I go around saying 'there all racist bigots' as a whole.
Post by
Supremacy
...
...I really, really, really should start keeping tracks of threads I start.
I guess I have some reading to do.
In my defense, I didn't know this was still being debated.
But, you know. If you think you can swing it, then bring it.
Post by
Adamsm
Someone linked it in another thread and it got necro'ed supremacy.
Post by
Supremacy
Someone linked it in another thread and it got necro'ed supremacy.
Well, that explains much.
I guess I can just go back to sipping this iced tea, then, and just let bygones be bygones.
*Whistles*
...or, possibly, not? I don't know. I'm a little curious about the new thread, actually.
Does anyone have a link to that?
Post by
Adamsm
This,
and actually I think it was you Supremacy.
Post by
Supremacy
This,
and actually I think it was you Supremacy.
Oh, that?
That was like from two weeks ago.
And I--
Right. Like I said, I need to start keeping track of things .
*Shrugs*
*Whistles*
Also, thought you may have been referring to the more recent link in a thread named "Varian = Deathwing?"
*Sigh*
Post by
Adamsm
Might have been that as well.... I can't keep track either heh.
Edit: Yeah it was from the Varian = Deathwing.
Post by
Skreeran
Did some detective work, and that Varan guy must have been someone in this thread. Either a reader whoe has an accoutn here and started a new one as a cover, or someone who was reading without an account and started one to try to criticize/insult me.
He said to read it in other threads. And yes, he hates Varian by a ton, and acts drives me insane on how he insults to alliance so much, then makes a fourm on how we should all stop talking bad about the Horde, even though he insults the everyone that likes Varian.
Hey TheChamp, have you read my "War is Hell" series?
http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=112371
I just think that might give you a bit more insight into my opinion.
To summerize:
Garrosh is wrong.
Varian is less wrong.
A fourth war should be avoided. It would be too costly.I don't think it was TheChamp, as he doesn't capitalize, as Varan did. Anyway, that's was a fun bit of attention to me. I totally wasn't expecting it. Came home, saw a thread titled "gagilugbGIKZndruipZGh;ukERZGNDUK:ZGer;dz" figured it was spam, but went in anyway, and for a moment I thought I had been misdirected into a debate thread I had already participated in. Never expected to actually care enough about my opinion to start an account and a new thread. I saved it. :P
Post by
636410
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Before anyone jumps out and yells "Necro!" this particular case is not a necro.
The author of this last post may be necroing other threads, but this particular one was well phrased and relevant to the topic.
In fact, I am inclined to agree, even though I'm not on Varian's side. From a strategic perspective, Varian was justifiable in expecting a war after the Wrathgate (not necessarily because the Horde would start a war, but because a terrorist act like that would have the people demanding a war, and he would risk looking weak in the eyes of his people--and opening the door to revolt--if he stood idly by afterwards), and taking Capital City would be a great advantage, one that he would be foolish to pass on.
However, openly attacking the Warchief was a risky move. If he was successful, it would have been a killing blow to the Horde's power structure right then and there, with multiple commanders and chieftains--Garrosh, Nazgrel, among others--fighting for leadership. However, if he didn't kill Thrall, that seals war beyond a doubt, and that's not to mention the risk of Thrall killing him, leaving Anduin to be king again (and with no Bolvar to mentor Anduin, the same power struggle problem would occur for the position of regent).
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Although I do understand what you mean but this isn't a good example. Its not that the Horde are a greater threat, they are precisely the threat that Varian must have expected when he declared war on the Horde after the Battle for the Undercity.
To quote Scott Hall : "You want a war? We'll give you a war."
To quote Varian Wrynn : "You probably want war so even though my star diplomat and pretty much every neutral leader out there protests against is... i'll give you war"
Not that I cant see it from Varian's point of view. But his actions can't be justified by how things would turn out if what he perceived (the horde can't be trusted, bla bla bla, they caused angrathar) and by what happened later, in the future.
Unless he's a psychic.Right. That's a good point about the neutral parties, because while the Alliance is strong in its own right, Varian pretty much ensured that he would get no support from any of them by making a preemptive strike (since the Wrathgate wasn't an actual act of war by the Horde, it doesn't count) against the Horde. If he had waited until the Horde made a more aggressive and official move against the Alliance, he might have gained the support of the Kirin Tor or the Argent Crusade. Even the Red Dragons might have helped out the Alliance if they had waited a little while longer.
But yeah, while I do think there was a considerable rage factor involved in the Battle of Undercity (particularly the impulsive decision to attack Thrall), there was a strategic value in it as well.
If the Alliance had taken Undercity in Tirisfal, there would be considerably less Blight used against them in Cataclysm. And since the Blight was the most dangerous weapon ever imagined by mortals (second only to the original plague), it was an intelligent decision to try and cut out that factor as quickly as possible.
Post by
Rankkor
sorry for the off-topic, but skree, can u log on MSN pls?
and about the topic:
meh, both varian AND garrosh have been discussed/justified/bashed so many times it's not funny anymore, so whatever.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
But yeah, while I do think there was a considerable rage factor involved in the Battle of Undercity (particularly the impulsive decision to attack Thrall), there was a strategic value in it as well.
If the Alliance had taken Undercity in Tirisfal, there would be considerably less Blight used against them in Cataclysm.
And since the Blight was the most dangerous weapon ever imagined by mortals (second only to the original plague), it was an intelligent decision to try and cut out that factor as quickly as possible.As for the bolded part, I don't think its true. It wouldn't diminish the production of the Forsaken Blight at all since the apothecaries who remained loyal to Sylvanas could just as easily reproduce the Apothecarium in Orgrimmar or somewhere in Tirisfal/Silverpine and so on. Sure, they would be closer to the Horde's eyes, but I believe that most of the Blight used in Cataclysm was produced recently and only allowed by the rest of the Horde in a case where its really needed.Yeah, but think of all the equipment, samples, and research they would have lost.
It would have set them back considerably.
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