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I raid frost and I'm always top 5
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Post by
elilla
Actually it's the fire/arcane mages who are carrying the bad raiders(and raids). When they're pulling an extra 1000-2200dps, dps from other sources is less of an issue in such that the death of one person can be offset. Frost only supplies a mediocre amount of regen plus the same crit buff that fire provides, and warlocks give.
Raiding works from a team stance, losses+gains=success. That includes deaths, RTU, RTD, regen issues and everything between.
Most people while they play this as a game also realize that there's more theory to it than OMG SUSTAINED DPS, in a spiraled loop. Which does nothing for the raid, when stabbitymcstabbers dies 1min in. And once you move from ah well, we're gonna just clear this tonight to 'well lets go and clear this and this and this tonight plus nab us extra loot so we can do even better the next', the issues grow.
BiS evolves to BiS+spec, and from there to self optimization, and so on. Which is one reason why some of the top frost raiders told blizz to go do something special with themselves at the start of WoTLK.
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220531
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Post by
Achloryn
I wouldn't laugh at 4k dps by any means..
Funny. Didn't seem that way with your "OMGLOL SIF RAID FROST" crap you put out in the "Mages in 3.1" thread. =P
what i said was that if you know you can pull that much DPS as frost, and then you KNOW thta you can pull more DPS as a different spec, why wouldn't you want to pull more DPS? that's kind of the point of raiding isn't it? to kill ^&*!, and the quicker you kill it, the better chances you have of NOT wiping.. of course that responsibility is not solely relagated to you individually, but why would you hold it back if you were capable of helping it more?
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220531
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Post by
wolf
i've been doing great as a frost raider, but i'm starting to wonder if i'm making it worse for myself
i just really hate refreshing scorch, and i leveled up as arcane so i'm sick of that
Post by
Spinnacer
I'm sorry OP, i do not believe you, at all.
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Post by
onelove221
Just to reiterate what was being said here, raiding frost in Naxx = OK, if you really want to be contrarian.
Raiding as frost in Ulduar = FAIL.
Every second a boss stays up is more damage for the tanks to withstand, more damage for the healers to mitigate and more damage for the dps to survive.
Gimping your DPS, and make no mistake, by speccing frost that is exactly what you are doing, imperils the other 24 people in your raid by forcing them to have to stay alive that much longer.
If your guild and raid leaders are OK with that then fine, but as a general modus operandi it kind of sucks.
I say this as a lover of frost. I raided frost from 1-70 all the way up to BT (we never got past the first boss in Sunwell in my old guild) and I was on these very forums defending the rights of frosties in TBC.
Needless to say, by the time WOTLK came out the writing was on the wall. Mages will raid as Fire, FFB, or Arcane or they will put out subpar DPS.
Period.
4k Dps is fine for Naxx, but you aren't going to be pulling your weight on 3D Sarth let alone Ulduar. The fact that 'locks are beating you on the meters should be telling you something. I raid as Arcane and the only DPS that can stay with my guild's arcane mages are fire mages, full T7.5 fury warriors and DKs.
That's it.
Balls out, a good fire or arcane mage can pull between 6-7Kdps.
'locks got gimped in WOTLK and aren't even on my yardstick for DPS comparisons anymore.
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