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50% overhealing .. avoidable?
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Post by
Stigoz
Let me first get this thing straight - I usually top healing meters, and I never expererienced going OOM in a raid .. I'm kinda satisfied with my healing as it is atm, but lately I've found out, by starting to pay attention to recount, that I, in raids with alot of raid wide damage often has 50% or more overhealing.
When I see a person dropping in HP, say 7000 damage, I'd throw a LB, because I know it'll heal for ~6-7k, and he'll regain the last bit through Vampiric Embrace, ILotP, JoL etc. - my problem is however, that if I do so, then our priest healer tends to just flash heal the target, resulting the bloom in 100% overhealing.
And with my nourish only healing for ~4-5k, I'd hate to see 1,2 secs, or 1 GCD, used for a 2k Nourish to top it off. And that's mostly the scenario, because the damage taken by the raid members always seem to be just below what's woth wasting 2 nourish for.
Any advice?
Post by
MegaVolt
Forget LB on the raid. Use it only in 3 stacks on the tank, it's really quite useless for raid healing (unless you are in a 10man and every single raid member already has Rejuvenation running on him).
Spam Rejuvenation on the raid. Even if they are at full health and you think there might be incoming damage soon. Your priority should be: WG on cooldown, Rejuvenation whenever possible, Swiftmend / Nourish only to keep people from dying, Lifebloom / Regrowth on the tank if you have nothing better to do (GCDs to spare, very low incoming raid damage).
And no, 50% overheal can't really be avoided - except of course by going into fights that feature more heavy raid damage. The nature of HoTs is that they heal all the time and recently they were changed so that they will always tick, even on a target that has full HP. That's why Druids tend to have high overhealing on Recount now while it was low a few month ago. Nothing has changed really, just the way Recount counts. Don't let it affect your healing.
Post by
Stigoz
Ah, but I've always thought that rejuv. would produce a MUCH lower HpS, with it being a 3 seconds per tick, spell - but I'll try rejuv. instead of LB nonetheless, next time I raid - thanks for the advice! :)
Post by
260787
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Post by
skribs
Different spells have their uses:
Regrowth on a target with no HoTs is probably a better option than Nourish. Lifebloom is good if you need to conserve mana but still keep people topped off (the mana return makes it less mana per cast) or if you except a person to take damage at a point where the bloom would be helpful (e.g. XT's gravity bomb and lifebloom both last 8 seconds). The key to druid healing isn't about choosing 2 spells and using those - but about knowing when to use what spell.
To answer the OP - you can avoid the overheal by not using HoTs and only healing people when their health deficit is greater than the heal you will use. This is not good druid healing.
Post by
Noxnoctem
I agree. If people are alive once the boss goes down, you've done your job.
Healing meters have never really mattered and they shouldn't bother if you do your job right.
Post by
skribs
Its not that healing meters dont mater, its that they're not the be-all-end-all. There is a point to them - and that point is to see who is and isn't pulling their weight. If one healer is doing half the effective healing but double the overhealing of the others of his class, there's something wrong and needs to be addressed. Recount also lets you look at rotations and see who's got better knowledge of their class or spells (e.g. a priest who has Prayer of Mending as a low spell on their counter isn't utilizing that ability).
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260787
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Post by
curlymon
Recount is a tool for analysis. But it does not tell you everything. I can look at ANY hps listing after ANY boss and tell you with out a doubt that it does not tell you jack.
You need to look at over healing. you need to know who was assigned what jobs and how that would affect their numbers. You need to know how each class/spec of healer is represented to each role and what how they go about doing things for the assigned job that fight. You need to know that effective HPS is directly related to the amount of damage your raid is taking. I'm just scratching the surface of analysis...
A disc priest is not going to be topping meters on recount for the simple fact that recount ITSELF does not count effective damage mitigated as heals. That lovely bubble they tossed the tanks way? say it prevented 5k damage. That is directly comparable to a 5k heal landing dead on when the same damage was received... Yet recount does not count that as a heal for the simple reason that it is damage mitigated vs damage healed. That right there is just one issue you need to be aware of when loooking at HPS meters. That priest the jumped to within half a percent of you... unless he was holy he either did more effective hps then you or was playing the class itself very wrong as a result of your encouragement.
Not only do you need to know what the numbers mean you need to know how the data is linked to what actually happened and what exactly is being displayed.
So yes if the only thing you are doing is comparing HPS meters you are not doing it correctly...
Post by
curlymon
On subject to the original post...
Have a discussion with your priest. He needs to not heal your hotted target if the hot itself is going to be sufficient heals. If the future incoming damage is going to be more then your hot then it is a perfect idea, but if the hot is there and handling it his heal is essentially just so he can top the hps meters it was completely unneeded... Assign specific raid groups to individuals to prevent unnecessary cross healing. Your overheals will get moved to effective healing and the priest will be throwing his heals at a location where they are actually needed instead. Heck you might even find, on a fight like that, that you may have the leeway to move a healer over to a dps position.
Post by
MegaVolt
Ah, but I've always thought that rejuv. would produce a MUCH lower HpS, with it being a 3 seconds per tick, spell - but I'll try rejuv. instead of LB nonetheless, next time I raid - thanks for the advice! :)
My Rejuv ticks for almost 2500 while a single stack of LB ticks for about 500. So even on a single target Rejuv does produce a higher healing.
But the most important thing is that your Rejuv will last 18 seconds. That's twice as long as LB! So even if they would have the same HPS on a single target the fact that Rejuv lasts twice as long makes the spell twice as effective.
You can have Rejuv active on 15 raid members at once, that's just not possibel with LB.
And saying Recount doesn't matter at all is just as silly as saying that it's the ultimate and only thing that matters. Both positions just don't make sense.
It takes an experienced eye to judge a healers performance with Recount but it is an extremely useful tool if used correctly.
Post by
curlymon
And saying Recount doesn't matter at all is just as silly as saying that it's the ultimate and only thing that matters. Both positions just don't make sense.
It takes an experienced eye to judge a healers performance with Recount but it is an extremely useful tool if used correctly.
If your speaking about me saying recount does not matter you did not read my post.
So yes if the only thing you are doing is comparing HPS meters you are not doing it correctly...
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473618
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404185
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Post by
curlymon
Recount matters to the extent the GM/raid leader says it does. The commenter's here carry zero weight and the GM - 100% weight.
This is a very true statement. Please understand that if a raid lead is not aware of the issues I have touched on then they may make a decision that is detrimental to the raid rather then beneficial. A raid leads job is to know everything they can about a fight and as much as they can about the roles and abilities of all raid members. Hardcore guilds stereo typically have a raid lead that almost does nothing else with their life other then learn the roles. Casual guilds tend to delegate a responsibility like this.
What ever method your raid lead employs to determine who is going to fill spots is is very true to say that they carry 100% of the weight of this decision. But maybe you can at least use the info to understand how they made their choice or even *gasp* use it to find ways to help yourself and other raid members. You're a team...
Act superior with your "it takes an experienced eye" comments, but that attitude will not help one single Druid reading this post.
I am in no way acting superior with the comments I have made. I provided an example of a situation and concepts for peeps to look at with the sole intention to prove that the HPS meters show very little useful information
on their own
and are a horrible metric to compare healers by.
And truly the fact of the matter is you really do need a very in depth and encompassing understanding of just about every factor in the fight itself, to make a truly informed comment about someone's healing. Infact I would say it is far far easier to have a "feel" for someone's healing from other healers then it is to extract useful data from hps, effective hps, over heals and damage taken charts.
Dps respond to a fairly scripted event sequence only truly complicated by themselves. Tanks are in much the same boat. Healers deal witht he scripted events AND having to deal with human error. That is what makes it complicated.
Post by
260787
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