This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Classic Theme
Thottbot Theme
3.2 Rogue Wishlist
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
Zanny
General
Resilience now reduces damage taken by players by the same percent as it reduced critical strike chance previously.
Mounts remain at 3 second mount time.
All talents affecting chance to hit have been changed to reduce damage taken.
All racial abilities that increase resistances have been changed to reduce damage taken.
All racial abilities that affected stealth level have been removed.
Stealthed units now have an automatically hightened stealth level of +25 while in stealth effects. (meaning 2 rogues should see each other up to 20 yards away, but vanish would still make you completely invisible)
Armor Penetration has been raised to 22 rating per 1% armor penetration.
All classes have had their damage lowered by an effective 20% across the board, and all healing has been reduced by an effective 30% across the board. (ALL CHANGES ARE MADE ON THE PREMISE THAT DAMAGE IS LOWERED AND SURVIVABILITY GOES UP)
Raid Boss Health pools have been reduced by 20% across the board, and their damage has been reduced by 30%.
PVP
Season 7 gear has been reitemized. Stamina values across all gear sets are made more similar. Specifically to this list, rogue gear has been modified to have bonus armor, the weapons, head, chest, and pants now have hit rating, the neck, cloak, and weapons now have agility versions with crit rating, and all the blue gems have been replaced with red gems. New gems have been added to all pvp pieces, such that the neck now has a gem socket, shoulders have an additional gem socket, the cloak now has a gem socket, the chest has an additional gem socket, the bracers now have a gem socket, the pants have an additional gem socket, and the ring now has a gem socket. The weapon sockets remain blue.
Multiple versions of PVP rings have been added, opposed to the previous crit rating only versions and hit rating only versions.
Rogue
General
Poisons can now be applied to thrown weapons
All poisons now deal damage.
Mind numbing poison is now a proc per minute poison.
Both wound and mind numbing poisons have had their proc rates off of weapons reduced to 40% PPM.
Mind numbing, deadly poison, crippling poison, and wound poison now deal AP *.1 damage.
The damage of instant poison has been increased at maximum rank to 206 + AP * .13 damage
Wound Poison now reduces healing received by 30% instead of 50%.
Assassination
Eviscerate now deals 40% reduced base damage.
Expose Armor reduces the affected targets armor by 6% per combo point, up from 4%.
Slice and Dice once again increases haste by 30% instead of 40%.
Improved Eviscerate now causes your eviscerate to ignore 30 / 60 / 90% of your opponents armor.
Ruthlessness has been changed to 33 / 66 / 100% chance to generate an additional combo point.
Blood Splatter now increases the damage done by rupture and garrote by 5 / 10% and increases their durations by 10 / 20%.
Vigor now increases energy generation rate by 20% instead of increasing energy by 10, the glyph remains +10 energy.
Lethality now increases the critical strike damage bonus of all attacks by 4 / 8 / 12 / 16 / 20%.
Vile Poisons now gives your instant, deadly, wound, and mind numbing poisons a 50 / 100% chance to also apply crippling poison, and you heal yourself for 15 / 30% of the damage you deal with poisons, and has replaced improved expose armor.
Fleet Footed has been dropped down a tier.
Quick recovery increases your hit chance by 1 / 2% and only increases healing received by 5 / 10% in addition to refunding 40 / 80% of the energy cost of a finisher that misses.
Seal Fate reduced to 2 talent points, for 50 / 100% chance to generate an additional combo point with all non-finisher special attacks (this now includes fan of knives).
Murder increases all damage done by 3 / 6%, without type restrictions, and causes your critical hits with finishing moves to apply the fatal debuff, increasing poison damage dealt to that target by 5 / 10% and causing all successful applications of poisons to that target to restore 1 / 2 energy to the rogue. Lasts 30 seconds, and counts as a poison.
Deadly Brew now increases poison damage done by 10 / 20% and gives your deadly poison a chance equal to 50 / 100% of your critical strike chance to deal 150% damage and count as a critical strike for focused attacks.
Deadened nerves is now 2 talent points for 3 / 6% reduced damage taken.
Focused Attacks is now 2 talent points for 50 / 100% chance on critical strikes to generate 1 / 2 energy.
Find Weakness is now 2 talent points for 3 / 6% increased special attack damage and it also now increases poison damage by 3 / 6%.
Mutilate has been retooled to attack with both weapons for base + 181 damage and deal an additional 30% damage as poison damage on poisoned targets.
Turn the Tables now increases all critical strike chances by 2 / 4 / 6% when someone in the party or raid mitigates an attack.
Cut to the Chase has been reduced to 3 talent points.
Hunger for Blood now increases the damage done by your bleeds and poisons by 30% for a minute, but is only usable on targets affected by bleed effects. The glyph still increases all damage done by 3% while under the effect of HfB (remains unchanged)
Deadly Throw is no longer a combo move. Deadly throw is now a 60 second cooldown ability, that costs 30 energy and applies your thrown weapon poison to the target, also interrupting spellcasting and preventing casting from that school for 5 seconds.
Combat
Feint now deals AP * .1 damage and can not critically hit.
Shiv now costs 20 energy for all weapons, does not deal weapon damage but applies the offhand poison. Can not be used with instant poison.
The base energy cost of kick has been reduced to 20.
Evasion is now a 60 second base cooldown ability that increases the rogues chance to dodge by 80% for 6 seconds and reduces all damage taken from ranged attacks by 60% for its duration.
Sprint is now a 60 second base cooldown ability that breaks movement imparing effects and increases the rogues movement speed by 70% for 4 seconds.
Gouge now costs 25 energy base and lasts 5 seconds, the cooldown has been increased to 20 seconds.
Improved Gouge now reduces the energy cost of gouge by 5 / 10 / and increases the duration by .5 / 1 second.
Improved Sinister Strike now gives sinister strike critical hits a 50 / 100% chance to generate an additional combo point.
Glyph of Sinister Strike changed to cause sinister strike to instantly apply your main hand poison.
Improved Slice and Dice now increases the duration of slice and dice by 15/ 30%. The base duration of slice and dice has been increased to 7 seconds per combo point.
Deflection now causes you to increase your parry chance by 33 / 66 / 100% of your agility to dodge ratio.
Endurance now reduces the cooldowns of sprint and evasion by 5 / 10 seconds and increases their durations by 1 / 2 seconds.
Riposte now also reduces cast speed by 20%.
Improved Sprint now reduces the duration of snare effects applied while sprint is active by 40 / 80%.
Aggression no longer affects backstab, but is reduced to 3 points for 3 / 6 / 9% increased damage.
Blade flurry now lasts 10 seconds, increases attack speed by 30%, and has a 1 min cooldown. Energy cost reduced to 20.
Blade Twisting is now a 20 / 40% on successful melee attacks to daze the target for 4 seconds, and increases sinister strike and hemorrhage damage by 3 / 6%.
Vitality now gives your damage over time effects 33 / 66 / 100% of your critical strike chance to deal double damage and increases the duration of all damage over time effects by 10 / 20 / 30%.
Adrenaline Rush is now a 1 minute cooldown that lasts 6 seconds.
Sleight of Hand and Nerves of Steel swap places : sleight of hand now increases your critical strike chance by 1 / 2%, and reduces the energy cost of feint by 10 / 20 and the cooldown by 1 / 2 seconds.
Throwing Specialization now increases the damage done by fan of knives by 5 / 10% and reduces the energy cost by 5 / 10 energy, and increases the range of your thrown weapons and abilities by 3 / 6 yards, including fan of knives.
Combat potency is now a 33 / 66 / 100% chance that successful offhand attacks generate 5 energy.
Unfair Advantage now automatically applies your poisons to your current target when you dodge and reduces all damage taken by 10 / 20% for 4 seconds after dodging.
Surprise Attacks now makes your finishing moves unavoidable by dodge, parry, or miss, but no longer increases the damage of attacks.
Savage Combat now increases attack power by 3 / 6% in addition to causing 2 / 4% more damage to poisoned targets.
Prey on the weak now increases all damage done to targets at lower health than you by 2 / 4 / 6 / 8 / 10% and increases the critical strike chance of sinister strike and hemorrhage by 2 / 4 / 6 / 8 / 10%.
Killing Spree now causes you to attack all enemies within 10 yards every .5 seconds for 3 seconds, dealing damage equal to AP *.3, during this time you can not be stopped and all successful attacks in killing spree restore 5 energy and heal you for 2% of your total health.
Subtlety
The base cooldown on vanish has been reduced to 90 seconds, and vanish now makes you immune to damage and spell effects for .5 seconds after using it, during which time vanish can not break and you can not be targeted.
The base cooldown on blind has been reduced to 120 seconds.
Cloak of Shadows is now a base 1 minute cooldown, and removes all existing harmful spell effects and makes the rogue immune to hostile spells for 3 seconds.
The talented ability shadowstep is now a baseline ability. Shadowstep has a 1 minute cooldown and costs 5 energy, but does not increase the damage of the next attack used following it.
Relentless strikes is now 2 talent points for 3 / 5 energy generated per combo point on finishers.
Master of Deception has been merged with Camouflage, stealth is now a base cooldown of 4 seconds and Master of Deception now increases stealth level by 1 / 2 / 3 and movement speed while stealthed by 5 / 10 / 15%.
Opportunity now increases damage done by 5 / 10% for the same abilties it currently increases.
Nerves of Steel has switched places with sleight of Hand
Elusiveness reduces the cooldown of vanish by 15 / 30 seconds, and the cooldowns of cloak of shadows and shadowstep by 10 / 20 seconds.
Ghostly Strike now costs 20 energy and the cooldown has been raised to 30 seconds, damage to 150% weapon damage, and it increases dodge chance by 20% for 15 seconds, and all attacks dodged while under ghostly strikes affect generate you 5 energy.
Serrated Blades now causes you to ignore 5 / 10 / 15% of your opponents armor, and increases the damage done by rupture by 5 / 10 / 15%.
Setup now grants you a combo point on your current target when you dodge, resist, parry, or an attack misses you, and the point cost has been reduced to 2 talent points.
Initiative has been reduced to 2 talent points.
Improved Ambush now increases the critical strike chance of ambush by 50 / 100%.
Heightened Senses now reduces damage taken by 2 / 4% and increases your stealth detection outside of stealth by 20 / 40% of your in stealth stealth detection.
Hemorrhage now deals 110% weapon damage, and an additional 30% weapon damage over 3seconds as a bleed effect. While the hemorrhage effect is active on the target, all bleed damage dealt to the target by your bleeds critically hits.
Preparation has switched places with premeditation.
Master of Subtelety now increases damage from stealth and for 8 seconds after breaking stealth by 2 / 4 / 6% and reduces damage taken while under this effect by 10 / 20 / 30%.
Enveloping Shadows now also increases damage done by 1 / 2 / 3%.
Preparation now causes your shadowstep ability to increase the critical strike chance of your next attack after shadowstepping by 100% and cause it to completely ignore your targets armor.
Cheat Death now grants you a chance to completely avoid an attack that would kill you (50 / 100%) and instantly heal you for 10 / 20% of your maximum health.
Sinister calling now increases the damage done by hemorrhage and backstab by 3 / 7 / 10%, and increases agility by 5 / 10 / 15% for 3 talent points.
Waylay now causes your ambush ability to apply your main hand and offhand poisons and reduce the affected targets attack and casting speeds by 30% for 12 seconds.
Honor Among Thieves now instantly generates combo points when your special attacks critically hit.
Shadowstep has been replaced with Deceptive Hand, a 1 minute cooldown ability that instantly restores 60 energy.
Filthy Tricks now causes targets affected by tricks of the trade to take 10 / 20% reduced damage and increases your movement speed after dodging an attack by 3 / 5%, stacking up to 3 times.
Slaughter From the Shadows now costs 3 talent points, reducing the energy cost of backstab by 5 /10 / 15, the energy cost of hemorrhage by 2 / 4 / 6, and causing all your attacks to deal an additional 2 / 4 / 6% damage as shadow damage.
Shadow Dance now causes the rogue to create 3 shadow images which share health equal to 30% of the rogues maximum. As long as the shadow images are active (which move around dealing no damage) the rogue performs a vanish every 4 seconds for 12 seconds, allowing the use of an opener ability costing no energy and without a positional requirement. Shadowstep has no cooldown as long as this ability is active, and the rogue is immuned to stuns and crowd control as long as the images exist. When they die, the ability ends. All damage dealt to the rogue is split between the images and the rogue during shadowdance. 2 minute cooldown.
Post by
Zanny
A month ago, I spent 2 hours looking over the entire rogue class to determine where it was in standing. I then made this list and posted it on Arena Junkies, as a complete review of the class and talents and what I thought could be changed. By could be, I mean I would never intend, hope, or desire Blizzard to implement everything on this list. Just that I would think they could do more in 3.2 than give rogues axes. Im banned from the actual forums for 3 years now, but I'm posting them here since the AJ thread is now dead, and more people are on these forums anyway.
So the above list was written a month ago, but as you can see a few of these changes already exist in primitive form in the 3.2 patch...
Heres a link to the AJ Thread :
http://www.arenajunkies.com/showthread.php?t=92424
For the people who dont want to read the whole list, basically what these trees do :
Assassination becomes more focused on poisons and unmitigated damage, looses some burst but gains mobility with baseline changes.
Combat gains more bleed damage and focuses on aoe damage in addition to energy regeneration.
Subtlety looses cooldown spam and burst in favor of extremely high mobility and more unmitigated damage than before. Shadowdance becomes a much more game changing ability, and I think this revised sub tree makes rogues an excellent tool on a 5s team more so than they are now by far. I kept it from becoming a PVE tree however, combat and assassination are fine for those roles.
The defining change I would hope blizzard would add in all of these patch notes would be the prep and cooldown change. Lasting a minute in arenas and then becoming useless and kiteable is not my idea of a balanced class.
And a last word : Im posting this list mainly because blizzard has changed almost NOTHING with the rogue class in 3.2 yet it has glaring issues in raids and arenas. Even though the class is viable in both does not make it fun. With burst being tuned down in arenas, the cooldown issue I mentioned in the previous paragraph WILL become a big deal and it should be addressed now. Many talents in all classes are left in prebc forms that make little sense, and this is just a rogue review, but the PVE implications are also such that rogues become more involved in the damage they deal rather than just autoattacking for 3k dps in most raids.
Post by
4466
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
261871
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Mitokok
Raid Boss Health pools have been reduced by 20% across the board, and their damage has been reduced by 30%
...why?
Post by
KidB
what is this i dont even
Post by
56987
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
280358
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
145388
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Zanny
1. I dont think rogues are gimped in PVE, and I changed little about PVE in these patch notes aside from 2 things, which are, A. That rogues do too much damage passively (which GC said, and I incorporated that into these notes to make less rogue damage passive) and B. Rotations are not reflexive at all, you simply refresh what is up and use cooldowns on cooldown and your damage is fine.
Heres my armory as requested :
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Agamaggan&n=Xanny
2. The nerf to boss damage was based around the fact that if you add up all the notes rogue damage drops around 15% from all of this, and within the first 10 lines you can see...
All classes have had their damage lowered by an effective 20% across the board, and all healing has been reduced by an effective 30% across the board. (ALL CHANGES ARE MADE ON THE PREMISE THAT DAMAGE IS LOWERED AND SURVIVABILITY GOES UP)
Basically saying that raids, and pvp, and everything in this game goes too fast, as a general assumption. These notes, I repeat, were not written for these forums specifically, but as an overall interpretation of the design philosophy behind rogues going into 3.2. The nerf to bosses matches that change because raids would be alot harder when bosses hit hard where healers couldnt heal it, but right now tanks getting hit for >50% their hp at a time doesnt look like fun to me, but that was mostly a pvp change because pvp healing burst is overpowered right now, so tuning pve down to match it would make more sense than leaving healers godly after the resil change.
3. Your list of changes reduces burst damage even further, yet you imply that the current burst damage reductions are a problem
Burst damage reduction that takes absolutely no thought from the player avoiding the burst is the more glaring problem. The changes were designed to nerf burst, yet retain rogue pve dps just a bit lower than where it is. I can pull 5k dps fine on any encounter in the game, my point throughout is, IN BOLD HERE WE GO...
Rogues are absolutely viable in pvp and pve. These do not make a game fun, and the fact blizzard has changed nothing except a cooldown in the first set of 3.2 patch notes does not bode well for what they might (or more likely, not) add as the development cycle for this patch continues.
I would hope few, if any, rogues have fun knowing that over half your damage is coming from you standing behind a mob and having auto attack on with slice and dice up. And I would also hope that any rogue that does bgs or arenas would prefer having to out-finesse their opponents rather than blow them up in 10 seconds or die 5 seconds later.
My point, in these notes I wrote, was that they are a suggestion of the many different changes they could add, to improve rogues "fun", and not their viability. The way they look like a complete overhaul is because they are a complete review, but taking them all as "OMG he wants all of this done when roags r fien" is just ignorance when I stated multiple times in this thread and my last that only a few of these could happen, Im just hoping something does happen, OTHER THAN GIVING ROGUES AXES!
Im not trying to sound harsh here but defending myself from the first reply on is agitating when I already said all of this and people just didnt read clearly.
Im hoping for some discussion and maybe someone who agrees with some of my ideas. If you like spamming sinister strike to 5 CPs so you can keep rupture and snd up and then killing spree on cd, thats fine, but I would prefer a more reactionary playstyle where your choices and ability to react to a changing encounter matter more than dotimer showing how long till rupture falls off and needs to get refreshed...
And once again, rogues are viable, but not necessarilly fun, and changing nothing in 3.2 is akin to a slap in the face if they didnt buff shamans when they were gimped healers in arenas and raids. They buffed shamans, but changing nothing about rogues besides a CD no one uses because the rest of the tree sucks (sub) isnt providing much hope that rogues can become more fun than they already are over time. I dont think there has been a patch since the rogue review in 1.10 when rogues got anything but the fewest changes in any patch.
Post by
4466
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
326176
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
261871
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
404059
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
261871
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
145388
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
KidB
I'm sorry to ask this so late but what is the point of these obscenely long posts you made, zanny? Are you trying to play a developer? Are you trying to make suggestions to Blizzard?
Post by
299264
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
261871
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Zanny
Apparently no one here has ever done high rated arenas. You DIE in 3 seconds of stuns. And the only way to fix that is to fix damage, and the only way to fix damage is to nerf dps or buff survivability, so why not
SUGGEST
both.
The OP is so long because it acknowledges every talent and some way to improve it.
If I hated the rogue class I wouldn't have been playing it since 2005. The list sticks to the fundamental design but updates the talents to reflect improved player based raid damage, and likewise, a nerf to pvp burst, while keeping raid damage from being too good it would have to be used in arena, but keeping raids from turning into 20 minute boss fights that no one wants.
Im not gonna repeat myself any further on this topic, its simple : rogues are viable, but getting 2 shot in arenas and having 70% of your damage coming from passive dps doesnt make the game any more involved or fun, and blizzard could do alot more than give rogues axes in 3.2 in order to improve the class.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.