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The value of pre-potting?
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Post by
Onijitsu
Just joined a guild. At least, for the time being. They are struggling with Elegon. (I'm 6/6 MSV and 2/6 HoF)
I asked the Tank to give the group a proper countdown to pull, so that everyone would be on the same sheet of music at the least. And, so that the DPS could pre-pot. A lot of the time he would pull and people would not even be in position. Let alone, ready to start hammering buttons appropriately.
When we discussed options to improve the situation, I suggested that a proper pull (with a countdown, and with everyone ready... everyone NOT being surprised by him Heroic-Leaping into the boss) we could shave off those last few percent. This warrior decided to start an argument about it, and wanted the math. In other words, he was heavily bent out of shape, and was demanding that I give him some hard figure or else he wasn't going to treat my suggestion as valid. After a couple of others chimed in and asked him to "just DO IT," he sulked, and made some still-rapid, bad pulls for the bunch.
I was wondering if one of the braniacs around here could do some napkin math on the value of these pots, and give me something to take back to the guy.
I personally play a Shadowpriest, so I know the pot can affect me for much, much longer than, say, someone who isn't using DoTs.
Post by
cornat
I'm not sure of the actual numbers, but I'd just like to point out that in a fight like Elegon pre-potting won't be as important, because <50% you're doing 250-300k dps. So the slightest wrong rotation can alter your overall damage done to Elegon much more than pre-pot damage if it's the enrage timer you're worried about.
On a fight like Stone Gaurd, yeah I always do a countdown so my DPS can pre-pot.
Post by
774999
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Problimatic
I'm not sure of the actual numbers, but I'd just like to point out that in a fight like Elegon pre-potting won't be as important, because <50% you're doing 250-300k dps. So the slightest wrong rotation can alter your overall damage done to Elegon much more than pre-pot damage if it's the enrage timer you're worried about.
On a fight like Stone Gaurd, yeah I always do a countdown so my DPS can pre-pot.
Its still huge damage, and Elegon you definitely want to prepot. With our dps in my guild with prepot we usually only have one add before the first add phase, this saves TONS of time later in the fight. Our strat for the orbs is to kill 4 without using any CDs. Then pop hero for 5th. On 7th use banners/stormlash then melt the boss til the pillars pop up. In a normal Elegon pull we only have 2 protectors spawn. 1 in the first phase (Would be 2 if we didn't prepot). Then 1 in the 2nd p1 due to the fact that the boss is already chunked at the start and taking 80% more damage.
Prepotting
IS
neccessary. The only fight there isn't really a point to prepotting this whole tier is probably will of the emperor. No use popping a pot to kill adds at the start unless you are just trying to parse. (And the amount of extra add damage will be negligent.) Honestly even though Im a tank, I carry a couple stacks of agi pots on me every night for raid because of how important prepotting is for dps. I mean during the start of a fight you have all of your CDs beng stacked onto a prepot sometimes including external ones (Banner/stormlash.) Always do a countdown, always have dps prepot, and if the fight is a real dps check, tanks prepot too. Hell, if you have a disc priest they should be prepotting and attonement healing for the duration.
Post by
chonchu
Yes, pre-pot counts, but like people pointed - it is hard to come up with figures, and even if you do - the guy can just screw with you.
So the guy decides to do one 'timed pull' and in the end for any random reason that pull ends up doing a bit less dps - he'll point out your reason is bull and go back to whatever he was doing.
In my opinion you should focus in the bigger picture;
Counting down gives people time to;
- stop eating or drinking;
- everyone tabs back to the game;
- lower their mp3 volume;
- stop chatting or typing;
- get into position;
- double check their buffs and flasks and so on ...
Which are all common behaviors between pulls, specially when you have strategies being discussed between the pulls.
Anyways, just my 2 cents,
Good luck you to =)
Post by
Thror
Honestly, I think anyone who would be able to do and explain the figures would be wasting his talent trying to convince a single fool. The advantage of prepotting is extremely obvious, and to realize that there is an increase in DPS, you only need
common sense
.
People with 4000 (FOUR. THOUSAND.) extra Agility/Strength/Intellect do more DPS than people without.
Rocket &*!@ing science level thinking right there! I am amazed that people didn't just ^&*!@ slap that moron into submission. If someone said something like that on my guilds TS, oh god, we would wipe the floor with his face.
Post by
Pachuca
If you're working on progression content, you want to be playing your character to its full potential. Min/maxing is important in these situations.
Think of it this way. When sprinters start a race, they're given a heads up to get to their starting blocks, are told to get ready, get set, and then the gun fires. This gives every competitor full awareness of when the race (fight) is about to begin, so they can perform to their maximum potential. Likewise, in a raid, if people aren't in position, aren't warmed up (pre-potted), then it's much less likely that they'll succeed in downing the boss that they've been having trouble with.
Our main tank uses one of those addons that counts down to the pull so our DPSers can pre-pot. This gives us (on average) about 13 seconds of increased damage. It might not seem like much, perhaps a drop in the bucket to some, but that extra push can mean that you only get 2 adds (rather than 3) before Elegon's first orb phase.
Your main tank might not give a @#$% if people are pre-potting or if people are in position because his job is not to maximize DPS; his job is to get Sunders up and pop survival cooldowns when needed. Therefore, not his concern. But you need to make it his concern. If they've been stuck on Elegon for this long then make "min/maxing" the carrot that needs to be dangled in front of his face. If everybody in the raid is at their starting blocks and ready to sprint when that proverbial starting gun is fired, you'll have a much higher success rate and happier raiders.
Post by
787929
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
xcrunr1647
At least now you know why the guild is only 4/6 MSV, a tank with that attitude...
This.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
jynxycat
It depends on Elegon, when you are pushing him into Phase 2. If you end up waiting at all to kill a protector, then pots are counter-productive. You're bursting damage just to wait.
Eventually though, with gear, you'll get to a point where you can shave off a Protector spawn through brute force DPS, and then it will matter.
There are definitely other fights where how fast you get out of the first phase is largely irrelevant, especially if it's HP based. Or where phase pushes line up weird, and getting there faster won't really matter. There are a few situations where they aren't going to help you survive any better, but it's not worth trying to explain it to a raid group.
Just use them anyhow. Damage is damage, and that's the job of a DPS :P
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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