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Stat Weightings in Far Heroic Progression
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Post by
JASP01
Hello!
So... About 2 weeks ago I became 3/8 H into Dragon Soul as a Blood Death Knight. As far as I've always heard, stats were Mastery>Dodge/Parry, until Heroic DS where it became Mastery>Stam>Dodge/Parry.
Now I'm hearing that there's a "mastery cap", and that I might have to worry about getting.... Too much? Now I'm hearing from my raid leader that Dodge/Parry might become more useful if I get Mastery capped, and that Stam will prove to be far better...
Well? Is there one, and what point is it?
This is my current character...
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/silver-hand/Doomsworn/advanced
Notice that I have Heroic Experimental Specimen Slicer, and Heroic Brackenshell Shoulderplates-- so I have 2 heroic pieces already... And hopefully I'll be getting more soon.
I have all Epic Gems, but I'm worried I might be getting things wrong-- I go directly off of Mr. Robot, and have almost all Mastery, with small amounts of Stam and Parry mixed in. Is this right? Later on should I change it?
Thank you for your advice.
Post by
Orranis
Dodge/Parry are far worse in Heroic DS, not better. That said, it's less of a "Mastery cap" as much as a "Stamina minimum." It really depends on the individual boss fight. I'd say you can be fine going all Mastery like you are until Zon'ozz (if you're tanking him) or Blackhorn. Hagara it might be nice to pick some up, but you should be Deathstriking during Focused Assault (the only tank-threatening mechanic) and thus the Mastery will be just as helpful. Go with the amount of Stamina your healers/you feel comfortable with and after that go for Mastery.
That said, 250% of your heal as a Blood Shield does seem a little much. I think at most I've ever had 200%. Unless I'm doing my math wrong. It is monday after all.
Post by
Problimatic
Dodge + parry are simply not very good this tier. Which makes me wonder why there is a dodge trinket off the second to last (And arguably hardest boss) in DS. Our DK tank took it on our first heroic spine kill for his "ilvl epeen spec." And there is no hard mastery cap as Orranis said. It isn't like pallys or warriors who become CTC capped and now mastery is bad.
Post by
251602
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
DraconisAerius
That's even more mastery than me and I'm pretty much gemmed straight for it. Also looking at the top blood dk on my server, he's got even less mastery than me, granted by only about 300ish, but a ton more stam, giving about 40k unbuffed more health than me. This is a guy with more Heroic Madness kills than normal and lfr kills put together so I'm inclined to think he's doing something right.
Post by
JASP01
So do I need to start focusing on more straight stam gems? Or am I still okay at this point?
Post by
Problimatic
So do I need to start focusing on more straight stam gems? Or am I still okay at this point?
You do need large amounts of health for some mechanics (Impale on heroic madness, Heroic Zonozz used to hit hard, don't know how he hits on people your gear level now since he is faceroll farm for us for a while now, etc.) Though you still need mastery. Try and find a good balance of mastery and stamina.
Post by
DraconisAerius
On Warlord the only thing that should even come close to killing you is a Drain with high stacks. And even then you should be saving AMS for that. Rest of the time he hits like a 2 y/o girl.
Post by
Orranis
On Warlord the only thing that should even come close to killing you is a Drain with high stacks. And even then you should be saving AMS for that. Rest of the time he hits like a 2 y/o girl.
Psychic Drain is not affected by the stacks, it's more the melee+drain at the same time. Either way he ends up hitting so fast and hard that Stamina will end up saving your heals more mana than Mastery as they won't have to start freaking out as quickly and costing mana-heavy healing spells. It's just safer. Even then, it's not like Mana matters that much, especially not when it comes to tank healing (it's really the raid healing and dispels that tend to drain them). I think that's actually true a lot of the time, it's kind of sad but I think EH has just turned out to be too effective again.
I'm not saying stack Stamina for it but it's definitely superior to Mastery, and if you're having tank deaths I'd definitely recommend it.
Post by
Problimatic
On Warlord the only thing that should even come close to killing you is a Drain with high stacks. And even then you should be saving AMS for that. Rest of the time he hits like a 2 y/o girl.
I remember prenerf Heroic Zonozz even before first black zone toward the end of ball phase melee swinging my DRUID TANK (Has more passive physical damage reduction than blood dk) getting hit for upwards of 70k per swing if I let my barkskin roll off too early. And we were doing a fairly conservative 7 bounces (What we still do now most of the time) which some guilds were doing even more. He doesn't hit me too hard anymore though it has been nerfed and I have about 15 higher average ilvl than when I started tanking heroic Zonozz.... But let me assure you at least at one point that dude did not hit like a girl. Unless that girl happens to also be the women's weight lifting champion of the world. Combine that with not always having AMS up for psychic drain and it could be fairly hard hitting. TL;DR you will have to figure out your stat weights yourself, but yes some of the bosses do hit hard enough where stamina is a very good idea to have.
Post by
251602
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
DraconisAerius
This is a guy with more Heroic Madness kills than normal and lfr kills put together so I'm inclined to think he's doing something right.
It's good to take a look at better skilled/geared/progressed people to compare with but it's good as well to keep in mind that people can do mistakes; i mean, ok he stacks stamina but you should understand why he is doing so, it's not like "he stacks stamina, he got more hc madness kill than me, I going to do the same".
It's not that he stacks stam, it's that he uses the green mastery/stam gem instead of the straight yellow mastery gem. In fact that's what I used to do, and will be chaning back to.
Psychic Drain is not affected by the stacks
That's the first time I've ever heard or seen that anywhere.
Post by
Orranis
This is a guy with more Heroic Madness kills than normal and lfr kills put together so I'm inclined to think he's doing something right.
It's good to take a look at better skilled/geared/progressed people to compare with but it's good as well to keep in mind that people can do mistakes; i mean, ok he stacks stamina but you should understand why he is doing so, it's not like "he stacks stamina, he got more hc madness kill than me, I going to do the same".
It's not that he stacks stam, it's that he uses the green mastery/stam gem instead of the straight yellow mastery gem. In fact that's what I used to do, and will be chaning back to.
Usually stamina is more favorable for progression than Mastery anyways, but I agree with the statement. On the other hand, Riggnaros stacks pure Mastery and... He's Riggnaros. So yeah go with what you and your healers are comfortable with.
Psychic Drain is not affected by the stacks
That's the first time I've ever heard or seen that anywhere.
It only affects physical damage. However, I don't think it affects his swing timer which means he will still punch you in the face six times harder than normal right after it.
Post by
JASP01
So some of the best DKs go with pure Mastery, some pure Stamina... I suppose it's situational and depends on what's hardest at the time. In a couple of weeks, hopefully, I'll be working on Heroic Hagarra, where I'd imagine Mastery is better. Then, on Zon'ozz, I might go to having a bit more Stamina... Blackhorn I would imagine Mastery would be better, and... Well, here are my thoughts-- I'm curious on your guys' thoughts:
Best stat according to the most difficult fight in user's progression:
-Morchok: Get better. Kidding; probably a mix with Mastery ahead. Also get better.
-Yor'sahj: Mastery. Magic damage occurs, but physical is the worst of what he deals.
-Ultraxion: Stam, but this isn't a huge issue for tanks. So get better.
-Hagarra: Mastery.
-Zon'ozz: A mix, with Stamina ahead.
-Blackhorn: Mastery?
-Spine: Mastery?
-Madness: This fight is so complex, and I looked it up... Once... I would -think- Mastery?
Post by
DraconisAerius
Blackhorn, Spine and Madness would all be stam. Impale does DOUBLE what it does on normal, bloods hit like a truck, and Warmaster gets vengance so he also hits like a truck.
Post by
Orranis
Morchok: Get better. Kidding; probably a mix with Mastery ahead. Also get better.
Assuming you know how to Death Strike properly for the fight Mastery definitely comes ahead, even in effective health terms.
Yor'sahj: Mastery. Magic damage occurs, but physical is the worst of what he deals.
What're you talking about? I one tank this and he can't even break my Blood Shield, while without cooldowns his DoT is ticking for 50k and his bolt hits that much as well. (I don't even want to know what it starts to tick for on 25 man, where it starts at 50k. Shadow Resistance > Stamina > Mastery.
Ultraxion: Stam, but this isn't a huge issue for tanks. So get better.
I personally just go full DPS gear for this fight. For progression I used DPS gear and a tank four-set. I was a bit squishy though. Stamina would pull out ahead (especially if you were maximizing Death Strikes for damage not survivability).
Hagarra: Mastery.
Assuming you manage Death Strike properly around FA.
Zon'ozz: A mix, with Stamina ahead.
What do you mean by 'A mix?' I mean, go for socket bonuses or whatever but for this fight Stamina >>> Mastery.
Blackhorn: Mastery?
Stamina, he hits way too hard constantly in P2 for Mastery to be more effective than EH.
Spine: Mastery?
If tanking bloods Stamina (also tell your off-tank to ^&*! himself because DK's such at blood-tanking. Dunno about the Amalg.
Madness: This fight is so complex, and I looked it up... Once... I would -think- Mastery?
I think it's Stamina, though I've never attempted it.
$%^& why is Wowhead slow.
Post by
JASP01
Thanks for clearing things up!
I said mix for Morchok just so you have enough Health for a Stomp w/ unlucky timing, but with the nerf, that's probably a joke now.
Yor'sahj I was specifically thinking of Yellow phase; I wasn't thinking clearly about the DoT.
Zon'ozz I have yet to attempt on H and so I wasn't completely sure.
So, thank you!
Post by
DraconisAerius
What're you talking about? I one tank this and he can't even break my Blood Shield, while without cooldowns his DoT is ticking for 50k and his bolt hits that much as well. (I don't even want to know what it starts to tick for on 25 man, where it starts at 50k. Shadow Resistance > Stamina > Mastery.
Yeah you have to two tank on 25man. Learned that the hard way.
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