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Can a newly self-aware Narcissist truly hate himself for being this way?
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Post by
Liquoid
I've searched the web and most of the articles I found described how to deal with a narcissist. None actually gave advice to Narcissists onto dealing with self. That made me mad.
NEVER MIND THE IRONY OF THE PREVIOUS PARAGRAPH, let's just have a talk.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
Here is a link to a discussion board where people are discussing the same problem.
Not a lot on there, but some advice and some book recommendations.
Post by
557473
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Liquoid
An aggressive narcissist can be described as a sociopath, but not all sociopaths are narcissist.
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
983709
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pezz
If it's not also sociopathy (sociopathical) I don't see why not.
Among other reasons, Elhonna's article seems to suggest you can feel guilt for not reciprocating feelings of love or empathy.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
I don't think wanting them to hate themselves is a healthy goal anyway- it doesn't make you value other people more when you devalue yourself- in fact many insecure people go the opposite direction by putting others down to make themselves feel better.
I think a better question is can a narcissist learn to value other people as highly as themselves.
Post by
Liquoid
Can a narcissist learn to value other people as highly as themselves?
Not me. To me, other people are OTHER people. There's just ME and OTHER people in the world, at the most basic level.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
Can a narcissist learn to value other people as highly as themselves?
Not me. To me, other people are OTHER people. There's just ME and OTHER people in the world, at the most basic level.
Well, then I think you just answered your own question. You've refuted the possibility, without more than an hour's delay, that you could ever even possibly come to value other people like you value yourself. You didn't even think about it. If you can't even bring yourself to even contemplate the idea that it's possible, you certainly won't attempt it.
I think that's why so much of the online advice about narcissists is just to stay away, get away, protect yourself, etc. Relationships with people who value no one but themselves are by nature self destructive, because the non- narcissistic party will never have any reciprocation on love or on having their needs in the relationship met. Friendships would not exist, because the other person could never count on the narcissistic party appreciating them as a person, being there for them, considering their feelings, etc.
When someone is harming you in a relationship, the only reason they would change from a self-centered behavior pattern is because they feel bad about hurting the other person. If the other person isn't worth anything to them, then they won't feel bad about what they're doing, and they'll never stop. There's no value to interacting with someone like that.
Post by
Liquoid
Can a narcissist learn to value other people as highly as themselves?
Not me. To me, other people are OTHER people. There's just ME and OTHER people in the world, at the most basic level.
Well, then I think you just answered your own question. You've refuted the possibility, without more than an hour's delay, that you could ever even possibly come to value other people like you value yourself. You didn't even think about it. If you can't even bring yourself to even contemplate the idea that it's possible, you certainly won't attempt it.
I think that's why so much of the online advice about narcissists is just to stay away, get away, protect yourself, etc. Relationships with people who value no one but themselves are by nature self destructive, because the non- narcissistic party will never have any reciprocation on love or on having their needs in the relationship met. Friendships would not exist, because the other person could never count on the narcissistic party appreciating them as a person, being there for them, considering their feelings, etc.
When someone is harming you in a relationship, the only reason they would change from a self-centered behavior pattern is because they feel bad about hurting the other person. If the other person isn't worth anything to them, then they won't feel bad about what they're doing, and they'll never stop. There's no value to interacting with someone like that.
I don't actively go out of my way to hurt/damage other people, I measure up pros and cons of thr consequences of my actions before I carry them out.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
Completely besides the point of what I'm talking about. Not caring about the person is damaging enough. Deciding how to treat them based on the benefit to yourself rather than the benefit to them is not going to make you a very good friend. it might not make you a monster, but I wouldn't want a friend whose only concern in how I felt was how it affected them.
Post by
gamerunknown
Have you read Orwell's other novels or watched any Lakoff videos? They made me more sympathetic to other people (granted, I've never viewed myself as a narcissist or sociopath).
Post by
TheVorago
Terms like narcissism only describe traits that all of us have to some extent but which may be magnified in certain people. Thinking people are ill because they're more or less narcissist is, I'm sure, putting almost the entire mankind in an asylum.
Self-preoccupation in general is probably a means to survival genetically / historically speaking. As long as it is coupled with an actual ability to experience some kind of empathy or compassion for other people I don't think it is very devastating, though certainly a less attractive personality trait.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
He's talking about Narcissistic Personality Disorder, I think, and not just the general trait of Narcissism. That's what I read, anyway, since it was brought up by a psychotherapist.
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