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War in Lordaeron
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Post by
Patty
You've missed a key point. Most humans in Theramore are survivors from Lordaeron. I'm also sure that I've read that around 20-25,000 Lordaeron refugees are in Stormwind. That's ~10-15% of the population, according to the figure of Stormwind's population standing at around 200,000. There are more than ideological ties to Lordaeron for the Alliance; there are political, social and of course strategic factors at work. Not to mention that many of the younger populace that are from Stormwind would have been born in Lordaeron, and of course most of the survivors of the First War lived in Lordaeron through the Second.
Furthermore, in many cases, I wouldn't imagine the Forsaken seen as invaders, but rather viewed as undead, inhabiting land that could be used to house the growing numbers of humanity. Additionally, the Alliance don't care much for the Scarlet Crusade, as the Church of the Holy Light has called both the SC and the Argent Dawn heretics. Varian may have zeal and heavy bias against the orcs, but he does not seem to empathise with the extremist Scarlet Crusade.
Post by
Gone
I would even go a step gurther and say that unlike those against orcs, a lot of distrust and hatred against the Forsaken is justified. They do develop chemical weapons (against the orders of the Horde higher command), they have invaded and destroyed a neutral city that had nothing to do with the Horde/Alliance war, and they do kill humans to create more Forsaken.
Post by
4dehorde
And? In the case of Galen, he's forced, due the fact that he was resurrected by the Val'kyr to make war on his people, and kill and murder them without any chance at all of escape. He's a slave of the Forsaken and makes it very clear he would rather be dead.
.
Doesn't a Val'kyr rez leave you free?
I never finished Arathi, but I am fairly sure that was how it worked out in every zone prior...
From what I understand, yes. People seem to confuse Val'kyr with necromancers, but as seen in Deathknell, undead risen by Val'kyr have their free will intact. That is the difference between Val'kyr and necromancers.
Nope; Galen is forced to serve the Forsaken; he makes that very clear from his quest text: If he had his way, he'd be using the ancient family axe on all of the undead around him and going after Sylvanas.
That doesn't mean he is enslaved. It means he has accepted his fate. If he were truly mind controlled, he wouldn't harbor any emotion or independent thought. He'd be like a Scourge minion, mindless.
Post by
Atik
I'm actually going with 4 on this one. I mean, I sit around and complain about America; does that mean they have me mind controlled?
Post by
Skreeran
Yeah, I don't believe Galen is mind-controlled. Mind control seems to be one of the few lines Sylvanas will not cross.
It does seem that Galen serves against his will (which is a waste of a perfectly good plot, if you ask me; I would've loved to see a Forsaken Galen vying for control of Stromgarde with Danath), but in the same sense that POW serves against his will, not out of mind control.
Post by
306612
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Post by
Skreeran
It does seem that Galen serves against his will (which is a waste of a perfectly good plot, if you ask me; I would've loved to see a Forsaken Galen vying for control of Stromgarde with Danath), but in the same sense that POW serves against his will, not out of mind control.
Val'kyr Agatha says, in the very first quest you get as an Undead : "You are no slave, <name>. You are free to follow whatever path you choose from here. If you choose to serve the Dark Lady Sylvanas, I recommend you speak with Undertaker Mordo. You will find him behind me, in the graveyard."
Hell, the only reason you go after Marshal Redpath is because he rebels, not because he didn't join up.I took that to mean that they aren't mind controlled. A politically or militarily useful person (like Galen) might still be coerced into action.
Post by
306612
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Post by
Monday
Sounds like Obama. /flee
No seriously, I have nothing else to add right now.
Post by
kemppy
Sounds like Obama. /flee
No seriously, I have nothing else to add right now.
*ice trap trips off stopping funden in his tracks*
"alright men we have him this time........well what are you waiting for..........WILL SOMEONE GET HIM HE IS FROZEN FOR THE LIGHTS SAKE"
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
That doesn't mean he is enslaved. It means he has accepted his fate. If he were truly mind controlled, he wouldn't harbor any emotion or independent thought. He'd be like a Scourge minion, mindless.
Except we've seen lots of mind controlled minions who railed against what they had become even while fighting for the Scourge: Anub and Zeliek being the prime ones. And the fact still remains that Sylvanas ordered the death of another prince of the Alliance and unlike Graymane's son who remained dead, rose up the heir to the Stromgarde as a mockery of what he had once been.
Post by
306612
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Post by
Gone
Far be it from me to stick up for Sylvanas, but I dont think she really mind controlls anyone so to say. However killing somone and raising them as undead kind of backs them into a corner, you pretty much have to allie with her for your own survival.
Post by
Monday
Except we've seen lots of mind controlled minions who railed against what they had become even while fighting for the Scourge: Anub and Zeliek being the prime ones. And the fact still remains that Sylvanas ordered the death of another prince of the Alliance and unlike Graymane's son who remained dead, rose up the heir to the Stromgarde as a mockery of what he had once been.
And there is absolutely no link between the Scourge mind control and Sylvanas beyond the fact that they're both undead.
To be fair, Sylvanas is a product of the Scourge, and has former Scourge. She might be resorting to their methods.
(Note, I don't believe this. I'm just stating a viewpoint).
Post by
Adamsm
Except we've seen lots of mind controlled minions who railed against what they had become even while fighting for the Scourge: Anub and Zeliek being the prime ones. And the fact still remains that Sylvanas ordered the death of another prince of the Alliance and unlike Graymane's son who remained dead, rose up the heir to the Stromgarde as a mockery of what he had once been.
And there is absolutely no link between the Scourge mind control and Sylvanas beyond the fact that they're both undead.
Well...other then her Banshee possession forces......
Post by
306612
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Post by
588530
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Post by
Monday
Worgen cannot become undead so what are worgen deathknights doing in the game?
Worgen cannot be rezzed by the Val'kyr. They can, however, be raised by the Lich King or human necromancers.
Post by
Adamsm
Well...other then her Banshee possession forces......
Which, IIRC, I've seen only once, as a Knight of the Ebon Blade tactic. She did so for her own body as well but other than that. I've seen nothing of the sort.
Used often in WC3: Frozen Throne when she was conquering Lordaeron after the Forsaken broke free; bandit leader, Ogre chieftian and something else were all taken over and their forces added in.
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