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Zombies
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Post by
Adamsm
Then what says that they're zombies? Other than the fact that someone called it a zombie.
Most movies go out of their way to not call them zombies; Infected, Them, the Scourge, Demons, Monsters...it's almost become lamp shade hanging where someone is about to say Zombie and someone else stops them saying that's it's just too crazy to consider that the dead are walking.
Post by
Skreeran
While that's true of the core zombie, there are many branches in the zombie family now.
They're not always dead.
Forexample, the zombies in Left 4 Dead are not dead, but no one would deny that its' not a zombie game. The headcrab zombies in Half-Life are also seemingly alive (at least, the normal ones), but they're explicitly called "zombies" in-game.
BRRRRRAAAAAAINZZZZZZ was only introduced in Return of the Living Dead. Romero's zombies don't eat brains, for example.
Fast zombies. Dawn of the Dead (2004) had 'em, Left 4 Dead had 'em, 28 Days Later had 'em, Half-Life 2 had 'em, etc. While the core zombie (Romero, Brooks) is slow, the subversion is common.
See: 1.
Well... this one is pretty universal. Occasionally subverted, as in Resident Evil 4 and World of Warcraft.
Not always. In Left 4 Dead it was a flu-type illness. In 28 Days Later they could vomit blood on you. In the Walking Dead and Night of the Living Dead you just have to die.
While it is true that there is a traditional, stereotypical, core zombie, not adhering to all of these core principles does not necessarily mean that they're
not
zombies. The 28 Days Later Ragers aren't
"zombies"
, by the strictest definition of the word, but they might as well be, so I treat them as essentially such.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
Well, Romero's zombies have been moving fast lately so they've been evolving for years heh.
Again though, it's an archetype and stereotype. Like almost everything, it has exceptions.
Yeah but now a days, the exception is the rule, and actually seeing the stereotypical zombie is incredibly rare.
Regardless, the exceptions will pretty much always be subversions and inversions of, along with playing with the portrayal stereotypical zombie. Same with vampires and most supernaturals, as I also said earlier. Skree, as I said, I'm not saying the subversions are not zombies, I am saying that they are almost always changes based on the original core of the zombie.
Post by
Adamsm
Then what says that they're zombies? Other than the fact that someone called it a zombie.
Most movies go out of their way to not call them zombies; Infected, Them, the Scourge, Demons, Monsters...it's almost become lamp shade hanging where someone is about to say Zombie and someone else stops them saying that's it's just too crazy to consider that the dead are walking.
Then why are you calling it zombies? Saying the definition is changing when really it's a whole new thing.
Evolving times and all that.
Post by
Skreeran
Then what says that they're zombies? Other than the fact that someone called it a zombie.
Most movies go out of their way to not call them zombies; Infected, Them, the Scourge, Demons, Monsters...it's almost become lamp shade hanging where someone is about to say Zombie and someone else stops them saying that's it's just too crazy to consider that the dead are walking.
Then why are you calling it zombies? Saying the definition is changing when really it's a whole new thing.Because the most basic principles are still there:
Normal, innocent humans are converted against their will into mindless killing machines.
These killing machines cause a massive disaster and attack humans on a large scale.
Those are the most basic principles behind (nearly) all zombie fiction, from the Necromorphs to the Scourge.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
There are quite a few of them where the Zombies are not mindless starting to rise up; Living Dead movies, the books by Brian Keene, and even the Romero zombies started to figure out that using tools means you can get at the nummy flesh much easier.
Post by
Skreeran
Well, mindless isn't necesarily the same as unintelligent.
Ants build farms (e.g. the leaf-cutter ants, the aphid milking ants, the honeypot ants, etc.) and can come up with some very creative solutions to problems, but a single ant is still considered mindless.
The way I see it, some zombies are rarely seen using tools or speaking words ("Braaaaainz"), but they're still usually far less intelligent than a human, and their former persona is essentially gone.
Post by
Adamsm
Or been taken over by something; see again, the Brian Keene books, and the comics Deadworld and Evil Ernie.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
That's what I'm saying, one of the main things that define a zombie is mindless. If they're not mindless, cool but then I wouldn't really call them zombies.Perhaps not. I do agree that mindlessness is pretty essential to being a zombie.
The problem is that there's no solid border that says "everything on this side is a zombie, and everything on the other side isn't." Where do Fallout 3's ghouls fit, for example? They look like zombies, and sometimes behave like zombies, but they're alive, they're intelligent, and they're the product of nuclear radiation burning their skin off, not a virus or magic. Or what about Death Knights in WoW? They serve the Scourge against their will and kill people, but they're intelligent and singularly powerful. I wouldn't consider either of those zombies, but they're not far from the line either.
I think it's personal taste where people draw the line.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Well that is true, but they get called "zombie" by NPCs every now and again, and they aer cannibals. My point is that rather than a hard and fast line between zombie and non-zombie, there's more of a gradient that people have to arbitrarily divide into "zombie" and "not a zombie" based on personal taste.
Post by
Tartonga
Then what says that they're zombies? Other than the fact that someone called it a zombie.
Most movies go out of their way to not call them zombies; Infected, Them, the Scourge, Demons, Monsters...it's almost become lamp shade hanging where someone is about to say Zombie and someone else stops them saying that's it's just too crazy to consider that the dead are walking.
Then why are you calling it zombies? Saying the definition is changing when really it's a whole new thing.Because the most basic principles are still there:
Normal, innocent humans are converted against their will into mindless killing machines.
These killing machines cause a massive disaster and attack humans on a large scale.
Those are the most basic principles behind (nearly) all zombie fiction, from the Necromorphs to the Scourge.
Exactly, this is what zombies are, or undeads in WoW for that matter. Now...why would they ally with the Tauren?
Post by
Adamsm
Now...why would they ally with the Tauren?Cause Magtha Grimtotem said it was a good idea.
Post by
Gone
Ok first of all Adam, no there are not not "millions upon millions" of types of Zombies, there are
maby
dozens. While there are many types of Zombies, it dosnt mean that anything can be a Zombie. For example creatures that are already classified as something other than Zombies, for example Vampires. Hey maby the Asguardians from Thor are also Zombiesre! No there are certin landmarks that Zombies have to follow, and all the landmarks listed that make the I Am Legend creatures Zombies, fit better with them being Vampires.
The creatures from I Am Legend are Vampires, you mention cannabalism as a reason they are Zombies, but they dont eat human flesh they drink blood. You also mention lack of intelligence, but they do have intelligence, they just lack society and rules, they dont burn down the protaganists house because they cant aproach it because he covers his house with with religious icons.
Also Vampires and Zombies can both be either supernatural or scientific, so the fact that the Vampires from I Am Legend are bactieral dosnt make them closer to Zombies than Vampires, and their not physicaly weak either, if anything their made out to be either equal to or slightly stronger than your average human, its only the ones that are starving that are weaker and seem to lack intelligence.
Post by
Adamsm
Ok first of all Adam, no there are not not "millions upon millions" of types of Zombies, there are maby dozens.
Oh, there are more then dozens lol.
Post by
Skreeran
I'm not going to argue any more. I've laid out my points. I consider I Am Legends vampiers to be the precursors to zombies, because "zombies' as we think of them hadn't been invented yet.
Post by
Adamsm
I'm not going to argue any more. I've laid out my points. I consider I Am Legends vampiers to be the precursors to zombies, because "zombies' as we think of them hadn't been invented yet.
Well, other then the voodoo zombies lol.
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