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Biofeedback - Replacing Medicine?
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Post by
475128
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Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Uh....
Placebo groups are used with experimental groups in order to show that a drug or treatment in fact does have a benefit.
Post by
475128
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Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Yes, but in a number of circumstances, the placebo creates a similar/more beneficial effect than the drug/treatment itself.
If the placebo response is higher than the standard index, the drug is deemed not efficacious. I don't see what the problem is?
Post by
475128
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Post by
Hyperspacerebel
You don't seem to know how placebo-controlled studies work. Unless you can show valid research showing that a drug was released into the market based on studies where the placebo groups had better results than the experimental groups, then your topic doesn't even have a grounding.
Post by
475128
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Post by
Hyperspacerebel
There ARE cases that a placebo outperforms an actual drug (YOU have agreed to this, so no research needed), and the drug doesn't get onto the market.
This doesn't even make sense.
The only difference between a group on the drug and a group on a placebo is the actual drug. Statistically, both groups will be under the same placebo effects. The only time that a placebo group will outperform an experimental group is if the drug is having negative effects, instead of the intended positive effects. Any drug that has a positive effect will always outperform a placebo.
The placebo effect is minuscule, as has been shown by extensive
meta-analysis
Post by
Squishalot
The only difference between a group on the drug and a group on a placebo is the actual drug. Statistically, both groups will be under the same placebo effects. The only time that a placebo group will outperform an experimental group is if the drug is having negative effects, instead of the intended positive effects. Any drug that has a positive effect will always outperform a placebo.
This, by definition.
Imagine that a placebo gives +10 effect.
A drug, by definition, will give +10 (placebo effect) + X (drug effect), because by taking the drug, they will believe that they are taking something good for them in the same way manner as the placebo.
Therefore, as long as X > 0, the drug will be better. So as far as selling a product is concerned, good drugs that hit the market will always be more effective than placebos.
Post by
475128
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Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Are drugs the only effective means of reversing abnormal conditions? Of course not. That's a bit of an irrelevant question. Drugs will be used for as long as they remain effective. If something if another drug or therapy is scientifically shown to be more effective, that one will replace the old one.
If you're specifically interested in biofeedback as a mode of therapy, then it has been scientifically shown to be effective (level 5 efficacy) in only one case so far: female urinary incontinence. There are several conditions behind that (level 4 efficacy). Cf.
http://www.isnr.org/uploads/EvidenceBasedYuchaMontgomeryW.pdf
Post by
475128
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Post by
Squishalot
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1276&bih=574&q=faith+based+healing+studies&aq=f&aqi=g6g-v4&aql=&oq=
Christian-backed studies are typically flawed in this manner. Non-religious studies on placebos generally show it to be not effective.
If you can replace a drug, then the drug wasn't effective in the first place. See point about placebo effect vs drug effect.
No matter what, if through biofeedback control, you can increase the placebo effect by double, for example, a working drug will provide a higher benefit*. A placebo in the new scenario might be as effective as current day drugs in the current scenario, but future drugs will be even more effective. For example:
Drug: Current Future
Placebo +10 +15
FluMed +10+5 +15+5
Realistically, we don't need a lot of medicinal drugs that we use now. The thing is, they help us to recover faster than otherwise. Likewise, even if we could improve the placebo level of health improvement, medicinal drugs will still help us to recover faster, meaning that they will never be truly replaced.
* Edit: Unless your control involves convincing yourself that drugs are evil and creations of the Devil. Google 'Christian Science'**.
** Not to be mistaken for scientific views of non-denominational Christianity. Christian Science is a separate denomination in and of itself.
Post by
240135
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Post by
475128
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Post by
Hyperspacerebel
You're mistaking a qualitative description for a quantitative measurement thereof. A placebo's effect is qualitative, so you can't start tacking on quantitative assumptions. So thinking that drug X will cure my cold and thinking that drug Y will cure my cancer has the exact same qualitative effect, but that doesn't mean that they will have the same quantitative result (the eradication of the condition in z% of the cases).
Edit: TL;DR, placebos won't cure cancer.
Post by
475128
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Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Because water will do nothing to kill a virus, nor will your mental state. Again, the placebo effect is extremely minimal. If anything, all it can really do is aid recovery.
Post by
475128
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Post by
Murrdurr
Biofeedbacks flaw atm is the cost vs cost of medication and the overall efficiency of it, its nowhere near the state of actually being able to overthrow medication on any 1 thing that meds can help cure(im not stating this as fact, just on the little bit I have read of biofeedback). I do not have much respect for Biofeedback or "Organic" meds, probably because I took Pharmacology & Medical Research for a few years. And as far as Placebo goes, its not meant to be used in place of real medication, its used to calm people down who think they are sick all the time but the Doctor can not fine anything wrong when they diagnose them, so they give them a Placebo. Patient says they feel better and are on their merry way until their mind convinces them they are "sick" again.
Because people like that are to say the lease, weird. Why? because they will think all day and convince themselves they are sick and the more they believe it the more the mind tells them they are sick, they could even feel like they have all the symptoms for something but in reality they are fine. A Doctor will generally give the patient a sample prescription most of the time before slipping them the Placebo though, and just about all the time the patient will say the real medication does not work, so thats when the Dr. goes with the Placebo telling them its a stronger version of what they have. Now that they have been told before hand that its "stronger" they will be thinking this when they take it, and the mind convinces itself that it was indeed stronger and they are now fine.
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