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Isn't selling gold.... illegal ?
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Post by
DrewCydia
My Friend says he needs to come up with a clever excuse that saves his ass and shuts down the gold buying site
Post by
91278
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
Suppose you have $10 in your bank account. Bank starts off with $10 in cash, so there is $20 in the economy.
The economy is very ...
quantum
, isn't it? "The same $10 exists in two places, therefore it is $20"
Oh, my bad, I didn't mean for it to be interpreted in that manner.
$10 in your bank account is a liability for the bank - it's money that they need to pay out on demand. What I meant was that the bank has $20 - of which $10 is its own cash, and a further $10 ready to be paid to you on demand. The reality of how much cash it has provisioned for daily / weekly / monthly withdrawls is entirely different, however, and is currently being discussed for implementation in Basel III.
Post by
TheReal
As a reply to why Blizzard will never sell gold:
When gold is cheap and easy to come by, the cheapest goods will cost astronomical prices. If I can put a stack of Silver Ore on the AH for 5000g and it gets purchased, then that means gold is too easily accessible. Suddenly someone who cannot afford to purchase in-game gold is at a disadvantage, and such a situation is bad for business.
Post by
468639
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
468639
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
Reason why Blizz will not allow this is because it goes against some kind of goverment law. You see, money can be reconfigured worldwide into anything, you can change 1000 zeni in Japan into 100 dollars in America and vice versa. Thing is money cannot be reconfigured into something non physical without it being reconfigured into something physcial again.
You missed one fatal flaw which I constantly mentioned repetitively. Unless gold can be reconfigued back into money the cycle of the economic flow cannot be continuous.
No, you misunderstand me. I didn't miss it, I said that you're wrong.
Prove it by:
a) Citing one referenced example of why it's against the law.
b) Providing a rational explanation of how the money cycle is not continuous.
You've already said that you don't know much about the economy or law. If you really don't, then don't make unsubstantiated claims and leave it to people who actually do know how the economy works. If you do, then start stumping up.
Post by
534868
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
lonewarrior
Gold sellers cannot obtain gold by hacking or anything like that, so they arent putting gold into the economy that wasnt already generated by the game itself. The only thing gold selling is allowing is somebody with less time than money, or less knowledge than money to have gold to buy things. This actually puts a higher ceiling on the amount of gold a knowledgeable player can make.
Yes and no.
Your right that they don't actually counterfeit gold(that I know of at least) and dump it on the WoW market.
However, gold selling would in effect, create a welfare state. Theoretically, if everyone just went and picked up a check without the need to be productive how could a WoW economy exist. Who would produce the gems, gear,enchants,farm the mats..etc for anyone to buy. Now before anyone says it's not welfare since you are purchasing it...remember that the monetary purchase exists outside the game and the gold usage inside the game, which is where the effect would take place.
I had players in my guild who would admit to me that they went and purchased their gold. These weren't bad people, but for whatever reason they just didn't want to participate in that part of the game. When I looked at their professions, they were all pretty much non existent.
They couldn't contribute to the guild or the economy. They lived on the welfare of generous guild members or bought gold. They were in effect, two dimensional players.
The other cause and effect is the monopolizing and/or flooding of the WoW market with lowball goods. I watched a "bot" one time relentlessly farm an area for days. This toon was impervious to being killed. I saw prices of what he is farming drop precipitously. They can farm an area to death.
The items they steal from accounts are also dumped for the sake of expediency, thus hurting those players trying to sell similar items. Which leads into the cause of account stealing since it is a lot more efficient then farming for goods.
I'll be the first to admit that going through the tasks of earning gold can be monotonous. I use to minimize this by picking a weekend morning to work on my professions. I really never had any problems earning gold.
Are there things Blizz can do to make it easier and more fun to earn gold without turning it into a PTR economy. Perhaps giving interest for money stored in the bank. Give monetary perks for grinding out professions(i.e. put some copper/silver/gold in ores/herbs/skins). Make killing bosses a financial bonanza. Earn gold for participating in BG's. Open up a gladiatorial ring where players could fight(in essence dueling for gold with WoW paying the winner). Create a trial of the Champion first boss type arena where guilds/pugs would create 5man teams and joust each other with the winners receiving gold. Open a casino :P
Earning gold is a vital part of this game...it just doesn't have to be as boring as it is in real life. Peace.
Post by
chowderman
To make it simple with a game like WoW.
You don't own anything!
Blizz retains all rights and ownership of everything, you simply pay them for the privilege of play with Blizz's toys.
So selling "their" intellectual property, i.e. gold, items, accounts, whatever is breaking their terms of service that you click accept to every time you log in after a patch.
And since it is an agreement that you click accept on, it is a legally binding contract and they can sue sue sue for any violations to their ToS that they can change at any time. And everytime it changes or there is an update, they put it infront of you so you can read it and chose whether or not to accept it.
What it comes down to is they do not like others making money on their product, nor would anyone else really.
Post by
Murrdurr
To make it simple with a game like WoW.
You don't own anything!
Blizz retains all rights and ownership of everything, you simply pay them for the privilege of play with Blizz's toys.
So selling "their" intellectual property, i.e. gold, items, accounts, whatever is breaking their terms of service that you click accept to every time you log in after a patch.
And since it is an agreement that you click accept on, it is a legally binding contract and they can sue sue sue for any violations to their ToS that they can change at any time. And everytime it changes or there is an update, they put it infront of you so you can read it and chose whether or not to accept it.
What it comes down to is they do not like others making money on their product, nor would anyone else really.
Youre not really adding anything new here lol, what you said has already been said a dozen times in this thread. Bottom line, Gold sellers will never get shut down because they dont actually advertise it as actually selling the gold, yes the WoW economy sucks because of gold buyers, all we can do about it is hope Blizz keeps on tracking the buyers and sellers and ban them.
Post by
lonewarrior
To make it simple with a game like WoW.
You don't own anything!
Blizz retains all rights and ownership of everything, you simply pay them for the privilege of play with Blizz's toys.
So selling "their" intellectual property, i.e. gold, items, accounts, whatever is breaking their terms of service that you click accept to every time you log in after a patch.
And since it is an agreement that you click accept on, it is a legally binding contract and they can sue sue sue for any violations to their ToS that they can change at any time. And everytime it changes or there is an update, they put it infront of you so you can read it and chose whether or not to accept it.
What it comes down to is they do not like others making money on their product, nor would anyone else really.
Youre not really adding anything new here lol, what you said has already been said a dozen times in this thread. Bottom line, Gold sellers will never get shut down because they dont actually advertise it as actually selling the gold, yes the WoW economy sucks because of gold buyers, all we can do about it is hope Blizz keeps on tracking the buyers and sellers and ban them.
What perplexes me about the whole gold selling situation is how these sellers are not blatantly obvious. It's not like they can maintain the gold off server. Some account has to be in visible possession of this large amount of gold. You would think that Blizz would have red flag parameters set up that notifies them to large gold holders and transactions. Even if the sellers devised ways to split the money up among multiple accounts at some point a pattern develops.
When an account gets stolen all the gold has to be off loaded before it gets shut down. There has to be a paper trail leading to somewhere. Every pyramid has its point.
Safe to assume everyone has seen that "Susan" person spamming gold services for the longest time. Are they that unscrupulously good that Blizz can't connect the dots to the bulk of their operation ?...hhmmmm.
Maybe it's time for me to google the ins and outs of such operations...might make for an interesting read.
Post by
Pwntiff
Not everyone who has six digits or more of gold is a gold seller. Also, I've seen a level one nonsense-name character at the Org guild bank rapidly changing guilds...
Post by
lonewarrior
Not everyone who has six digits or more of gold is a gold seller. Also, I've seen a level one nonsense-name character at the Org guild bank rapidly changing guilds...
I agree...but then again neither are they making multiple large transactions a day, which you think would be necessary to be remotely profitable.
I too have seen those odd toons. One in particular was a level 60 mage who use to posted multiple listing of the same epic items and most level 80. I put this toon on my friends list and pretty much noticed this person never left Org.
Post by
Ippon
I agree...but then again neither are they making multiple large transactions a day, which you think would be necessary to be remotely profitable.
I too have seen those odd toons. One in particular was a level 60 mage who use to posted multiple listing of the same epic items and most level 80. I put this toon on my friends list and pretty much noticed this person never left Org.Most people have an AH character that doesn't get played and never leaves Org. My personal AH mule is a level 58 DK.
Post by
Murrdurr
The thing is, is no gold sellers usually keep their gold spread across multiple toons so that it doesnt look obvious. And yeah I have seen toons with "afemkofeks" names changing guilds on the fly as well, the gold seller probably has several guild banks as well filled with gold also, well maybe not filled with gold but its a extra place to store it if needed.
Post by
Squishalot
I agree...but then again neither are they making multiple large transactions a day, which you think would be necessary to be remotely profitable.
I too have seen those odd toons. One in particular was a level 60 mage who use to posted multiple listing of the same epic items and most level 80. I put this toon on my friends list and pretty much noticed this person never left Org.Most people have an AH character that doesn't get played and never leaves Org. My personal AH mule is a level 58 DK.
Indeed. My AH alt is a level 2 warrior called 'Wtbwtswtt'. Looks like a garbage name at first glance, no? She sits perpetually in Stormwind, amasses huge amounts of gold, and even sells truegold transmutes. It seems odd, but it's perfectly above the board.
I've heard about a guy IRL who sold gold who was the guildy of one of my RL friends. He only made about $100 a week or so - that's about 50,000 gold a week, I think? You only need a few transactions a week to make that money. It's certainly not enough to make a living on in a developed country, but that same amount is up to 10 times more than what some factory workers earn in China. You don't need high volumes for it to be profitable.
Post by
Murrdurr
Indeed. My AH alt is a level 2 warrior called 'Wtbwtswtt'. Looks like a garbage name at first glance, no? She sits perpetually in Stormwind, amasses huge amounts of gold, and even sells truegold transmutes. It seems odd, but it's perfectly above the board.
I've heard about a guy IRL who sold gold who was the guildy of one of my RL friends. He only made about $100 a week or so - that's about 50,000 gold a week, I think? You only need a few transactions a week to make that money. It's certainly not enough to make a living on in a developed country, but that same amount is up to 10 times more than what some factory workers earn in China. You don't need high volumes for it to be profitable.
Yeah 50k is about $90-$150 depending on the seller. And a extra $100 a week for just selling a little bit of gold is a nice little profit heh. When I was in high school and everquest was the big dawg of MMOs I honestly could make $50-$2000 a week depending on what I had to sell and how much effort I put into it. 10,000 platinum would get me about $50 or $75 (having a mass amount of currency was the norm in EQ so 10,000 plat is like 1,000g in WoW). A good account that had just 1 max level toon with its class epic weapon (tons different to what we know as epic weaps or armor) could easily go for $1000-2000 very quickly. I once acquired a account with a max level Mage, Warrior, and Bard all with their class epic weapon and made about $3700 off of it. Sucks those days are over lol, I once looked into selling my current account w/ 6 lvl80s about a year ago and sadly nobody would budge over $500 so i said screw it ill keep the account.
Post by
468639
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Post by
468639
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