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Hunters: Master of None AKA "The Cynical View on Hunter Utility"
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Post by
725606
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Interest
Only affliction warlocks have any considerable method of kiting, and that is Bane of Exhaustion. They sacrifice CoA damage for it to be up on target, though. The other two specs; demo and destro, are more about tanking whilst casting during fears and casting during stuns/fears/charms, respectively. A lot of people say destro is most like mage play, but that's only because of direct damage.
Also, fire mages don't really kite, aside from mobile scorch. They bomb the *!@# out of things with the aid of chain disables XD. Their only real snare is blast wave daze or ice armor should they opt to use it and lose mobile scorch. I'm not sure if hot streak would really count, since it's more of a 'defensive/offensive buff, but that's up to debate, imo.
It's a Curse, nice try.
And Demo Locks can also chain disable.
Post by
389077
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Post by
683852
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Interest
Going back to the issue with Aspect of the Fox I mentioned earlier, I really hope there's a bug here (as opposed to "working as intended"). When you stand still and shoot Steady/Cobra Shot, the character turns toward the target. Problem is, this also happen when you run and shoot with Aspect of the Fox active. While it can be easily "fixed" by steering with the mouse and juggle it around a bit as you press the shoot button (holding down right mouse button and not moving mouse will still make you turn), this is actually incredibly annoying.
I usually strafe directly away from the enemy, what happens when I run and shoot is that I make a 90 degree turn
, thus no longer gaining distance to the enemy.
SO DO I. I hate it when it turns me bizarrely while doing mobile Cobra Shots.
Real pain.
Post by
725606
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Interest
You are right, sorry. I haven't played in about seven months now, so forgive me. I believed, for some reason, that exhaustion was converted to a bane along with agony and doom. I do, however, believe that demo chain disables aren't substantial, and also that chain disabling is not completely synonymous with kiting.
On another note, I think that Blizz needs to decide what direction they're going with with hunters. I, like you, dislike the 'Swiss army knife' mentality of the hunter class; I find it to be unrefined, clumsy, and in need of streamlining. I think hunters deserve their own set of uniquely effective tools so they can fit into a niche like every other class, instead of being an afterthought.
TL;DR I agree with your post, and agree with the examples listed, apart from demo and destro locks, which imo utilize additional methods that are unique from kiting.
I'll take that.
Post by
HoleofArt
Forgot this
and
this
for Warlocks, although the stun is Demo exclusive, paired with Hand of Guldan it's quite a bother.
Post by
725606
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Interest
Forgot this
and
this
for Warlocks, although the stun is Demo exclusive, paired with Hand of Guldan it's quite a bother.
Yeah, I forgot Soul Harvest. I think I did include Axe Throw.
Honestly though, Warlocks have enough self-healing abilities listed that Soul Harvest is just extra stuff.
Post by
XxOmuraxX
I think hunter is not that bad atm.
Some people dont know how to use camouflage in pvp and particularly in bgs.
Having 2-3s of element of surprise is deadly against most classes when you are hunter, it was boring enough not being a NE but now we can own without being one.
I love how this guy compare all our tools to other's classes but you do know that we are only one class right?
Maybe you should play on your mage if it's so OP.
Post by
Interest
I think hunter is not that bad atm.
Some people dont know how to use camouflage in pvp and particularly in bgs.
Having 2-3s of element of surprise is deadly against most classes when you are hunter, it was boring enough not being a NE but now we can own without being one.
I love how this guy compare all our tools to other's classes but you do know that we are only one class right?
Maybe you should play on your mage if it's so OP.
We are one class. But every class is as important as the next.
I don't think Hunter is too awful, there's clearly some unfinished stuff, but the biggest issue is Blizzard let us leave the beta in this state. Obviously we weren't the only class/spec (Priests, Ret Paladins, Combat Rogues and to a lesser degree other Rogues, Fire Mages in PvE etc) left high and dry.
But some of these issues have been in the game since Hunters were created, and while I will admit it has gotten better (traps got their own category cooldowns, we can finally use them at a range after 2-3 expansions), other classes have gotten tools that quite frankly, make ours look like total crap.
Because of this, the only reason we were brought to an arena team was mainly 2 things.
1. Our burst was absolutely ridiculous (mostly in Wrath). At most given points in Wrath one or more of our specs were quite capable of downing opponents if allowed to turret, more so than most other given classes/specs.
2. Bestial Wrath/The Beast Within granting us CC immunity coupled with high damage. There's a reason it's called Beast Cleave, and Hunter is an integral part of it.
And of course our PvE has been more or less fine. Sometimes we were the top, sometimes we were not, and the damage you deal was purely based on knowing your rotation inside out and obviously getting out of hazards. In addition, bonus points were given for good pet management and use of utility (lol Deterrence vs Emalon Overcharge mechanic).
Yet we still have issues (not like other classes don't lol), and I wanted to mostly address our faulty utility and such here. You are entitled to whatever opinion you want though.
Oh btw, I have 9 level 80+'s and know a decent amount about each of them, and I've played with enough Warriors and asked enough questions to know a relatively decent amount about that class as well, it's just I know and like Hunters a bit better (first character lol) and would be more partial to playing a Hunter as opposed to another class. I don't want to drop my main purely because of poor mechanics that have been in the game for a long long time.
P.S. Survival is so powerful in PvE. Maybe that's what you're getting at? Also, I didn't talk about Camo. I didn't want to evaluate a spell that I haven't seen or used too much yet.
Post by
195220
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Interest
and Interest: id love to share the macro as i prefer information be free to anyone but i only know about it from my friend that brags when he hits me with it. He went Ally a few months ago<the swine!> and now we hunt each other regularly. Unfortunately, even tho we are real ID friends, he wont tell me the macro since he worries ill use it on him..... and i would..... hourly.
Then he's likely lying, because I've tried many many MANY variations to make it work, but only castsequence seems to (that requires two button presses, even though it is the same one).
Hand of guldan has both a cast time, a cooldown and is only a 3 second immobilization, it wont slow them so they will catch up and if you stop to recast it they will probably smack you down. Axe toss is also kind of poor for kiting as if your kiting something its probably going to destroy the felgaurd as soon as it comes off stun, of course if your talking about pvp then yea demo does do very well in PVP encounters right now. at any rate
fire mage
kiting seems less then likely and destro kiting even more so.
A good warlock know hows to use Hand of Gul'dan's immobilization and stun properly, and PvE mobs need no motivation in that regard, just stand near the Aura until the stun pops (or just do the chain stun trick).
Warlocks usually outaggro their Felguards at points.
Fel Flame allows for sustained mobile damage (so all Warlocks can do something now)
Aftermath and Shadowfury would like a word with you.
Warlocks have other ways to survive outside of kiting on top of all this.
Have you seen Fire Mage Scorch while moving? It's quite nasty at times, and with the other instants they have access to (Fire Blast stun, Blast Wave, Living Bomb), they can sustain some distance.
That's exactly the point, you aren't supposed to have "the best" of anything when you can do everything. its like you couldn't even bother to read before clicking the quote button. Its the whole reason druids were so hated in BC when they could go from cat doing the same or better damage as a rogue then switch to druid form and heal just as well as a resto druid. they still bug me but thats more personal grudges then anything else.
I don't want "the best." I just simply don't want the worst of about everything. Actually, regarding that "everything" thing, we don't actually have "everything." I don't see Hunters with say, a baseline Silence, or the ability to have a Stun and a Disarm at the same time outside of the BM spec (the Stun and Disarm are both pet abilities outside of the BM spec). We also don't have a baseline interrupt (which would probably be kinda cheap either way) and no real baseline self-healing (dumping 7 points into Beast Mastery as a Marksman or Survival Hunter is absolutely unideal).
The list just goes on, and it never ends. We're just a rusty Swiss army knife with pieces breaking off. It's not fun to spend 3 actions just to CC, only to have the mob or opponent move off the trigger area, even after accounting for any possible movement. It's not fun having to wait 24-30 seconds to do it again. It's not fun to waste 2 lockdown abilities just to actually Crowd Control otherwise. It's not fun to...
Yeah, you get the point. Once we actually get some tools that aren't the absolute worst of worst, or at least not clunky as hell, then I might reconsider Hunter's position, but as it stands, we are slated to be the worst class for the next PvP season; fortunately, skill and a relatively high (Survival does a TON of damage at the moment) output will get us that raid slot in PvE.
I like Hunter, and I'm not going to quit. I'm going to get a set of PvP gear and see how far I can go, just to see if these predictions are true, as that is where our utility will majorly come into play, but as I see it, after missing with several several traps due to the clunkiness of Trap Launcher and in fact Traps in general, among other utility (Howling Blast going through Deterrence is fun!) being flawed or clunky in their own way, it's clear that the skill cap is quite high for the class in terms of using this sort of utility and just...surviving, I can see these claims being quite true, and if they are, I hope Blizzard sees our issues and does something, anything, to address it so that we are on par (not overpowered, I just want to be competitive) with other classes.
Afterthought: God, I sound like a broken record right now, but if it helps people understand, it'll all be worth it.
Btw, read the thread I linked, and go to
this one
as well.
Post by
494341
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Interest
SO DO I. I hate it when it turns me bizarrely while doing mobile Cobra Shots.
Real pain.
Turn with your mouse...? You'll lose a second at most - and I thought they removed that.
I do turn with my mouse, but for a brief moment I strafe in a different direction. It's a little hard to predict exactly how Cobra/Steady Shot turns you.
(I don't see mobile Scorch doing this, btw, so why should ours)
Post by
494341
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Interest
(I don't see mobile Scorch doing this, btw, so why should ours)
You miss the countless posts I've mad on the fact we're a vanilla beta side project they threw mana on and don't care about?
;)
I've seen em, and I really don't want to believe it, to be honest.
Some parts of Hunter I actually do appreciate...so.
Post by
Loophole
With the exception of completely scrapping counterattack, is there anyway counterattack be made useful through changes? It just sucks that we get such a useless talent in the Sv tree... I have some hope that Blizz can actually make the talent useful for us on day.
Post by
Interest
With the exception of completely scrapping counterattack, is there anyway counterattack be made useful through changes? It just sucks that we get such a useless talent in the Sv tree... I have some hope that Blizz can actually make the talent useful for us on day.
Check my talent tree link in the original post. I tried...
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