This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Classic Theme
Thottbot Theme
Islamic Community Center in Manhattan
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
574857
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
375923
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Heckler
Should a Christian church/commuinity center be built beside a Nazi concentration camp? Should a protestant church be built at the site of bloody sunday in northern ireland?
The builders of the commuinity center knew they were going to be causing trouble by choosing that location no matter what way you look at it and should of chosen a diffrent location plain and simple.
Be more detailed please. Explain to me
exactly
how the situations you listed are analogous to the Ground Zero situation, because I'm still not seeing it.
You claim to know their intentions -- they chose this location
in order to
cause trouble. Is it not possible that they chose this location precisely to promote the idea of tolerance, and to dissociate the ignorant yet common-place connection between Muslims and Terrorists, or Islam and Al-Qaeda that so many Americans have? Or perhaps because it's Manhattan and there wasn't much else available?
If all you're saying is that it's disrespectful to the victim's and families, then shouldn't it be
their
choice whether or not to be offended? There's already been polls that show they're pretty much split on the issue, with about as many supporting the construction as opposing it. If this really is about sensitivity to the families, why has it become a national debate? The current state of the discussion (which has been driven from the beginning by the opponents of the center, and not the proponents) has done far more to disrespect the memories of the 9/11 victims, in my opinion. This debate has been turned into a silly debacle, fueling Cable News ratings, and doing
nothing
to promote the ideas of peace, tolerance, or any other
good
thing.
Post by
375923
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Heckler
The 'trouble' you talk about is specifically caused and fueled by
ignorance
! Capitulating to demands based in ignorance simply gives improper credence to those ignorant demands. What better way to promote peace than by directly combating the ignorance at the root of the conflict?
This is exactly the same as the earlier comparison to the Mormon Church deciding to cancel a Temple construction due to protests against Polygamy -- to do so would be to admit that the Anti-Polygamy protesters had some merit.
Post by
375923
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Heckler
So, let's say you had Purple Hair, and there was a group at school threatening to beat up all Purple haired kids. You're saying it would then be morally wrong, on you, to go to school knowing there would be trouble?
I suppose the Civil Rights movement was morally improper as well? And the push for women's suffrage, and emancipation? All of those caused plenty of 'trouble.'
Post by
375923
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Heckler
No, I'm saying that your statement:
Ignorant arguement or not it does not give the moral right to cause trouble
is absolutely ridiculous.
And for the record, there are PLENTY of people saying that there should be no mosques in New York City, or State, or anywhere in America. These people's line of reasoning is rooted in the exact same place as yours.
Post by
375923
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
138638
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Orranis
Okay, here comes the lefty rant. Brace ye'selves.
1. First of all, this is not being built on the site of ground zero. It is two blocks away from ground zero. In fact, as a native New Yorker who's stood where it was built, ground zero isn't even visible from where it's being built. The nearby sex shop, however, is. Authentic American consecration, amirite? The builder's of the sight aren't causing trouble, it's the protesters.
2. I hope you've realized that not all Muslim's are terrorists. Most of them hate terrorism just as much as we do. The organization building this Mosque is notorious for harboring intellectual individuals and being accepting towards ALL religious or nonreligious views. These are the LAST people to be extremists. In fact, a huge amount had family die in 9/11. There is no way this is a 'victory banner.'
3. Nobody in New York cares. New York is generally the Leftist capital of America. Even Bloomberg, who is a Republican, spoke in favor of the Mosque being built. Who's the type that they start kicking up the fuss?
An arrogant, self important, bigoted and racist bastard
who thinks he's a big shot with a church of 30 people and enjoys the media spotlight even if it means lying through his teeth about an agreement. Why do they even give this *!@#$%^ the time of day?
Captcha: Pinallor
9-11
) O.o
Post by
Heckler
the trouble > reward
Who decides this? You?
Also, @Orranis, you called that a leftist rant, but all I see is common sense and rational thinking. /agree
Post by
375923
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Orranis
the point is it makes no diffrence to the planners of the building where the site is located,
Really? Are you so sure about that? They are being PERSECUTED because of their religious beliefs. Did you know that it's illegal in New York to deny someone the right to buy or rent property based on race, religion, sexual orientation, etc? Not only would it be morally wrong, but it would be an infringement of their civil rights. I would sure as hell care if someone said, "You can't buy here, because you're Jewish." I would probably sue the bastard. And I'm not even Jewish... I just come from a Jewish family.
Post by
375923
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Heckler
. . . and everyones happy.
Can you expand on the rational thought process that led you to this conclusion? They are being flamed and harassed solely because of their religion, for reasons that have no rational basis whatsoever (reasons that are altogether disrespectful and insulting), and your suggestion is that they should give in to that harassment, because it would make them happier?
I am saying for the sake of mutual respect
Are you seriously using
mutual respect
as rationale for your argument? Your stance on this issue is a
blatant assault
on the virtues of tolerance and mutual respect. The builders did not make a national spectacle of this location, their opponents did that. You'd be hard-pressed to convince me that this center, or its builders, have been disrespectful to anyone in any way -- yet they've been under assault by some of the most disrespectful discourse in recent memory for months.
Are you a serious person?
Post by
Monday
Also, @Orranis, you called that a leftist rant, but all I see is common sense and rational thinking. /agree
This ^
Post by
375923
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Orranis
Really? Are you so sure about that? They are being PERSECUTED because of their religious beliefs. Did you know that it's illegal in New York to deny someone the right to buy or rent property based on race, religion, sexual orientation, etc? Not only would it be morally wrong, but it would be an infringement of their civil rights. I would sure as hell care if someone said, "You can't buy here, because you're Jewish." I would probably sue the bastard. And I'm not even Jewish... I just come from a Jewish family.
Yes and it is illegal to deny someone the right to protest,
They have every right to protest what's going on. The only problem is that they cannot enforce what they would have done, so there's no point in doing it. They are protesting giving another person their civil rights. They have the right to do it, but it's still morally wrong, and if they succeeded then they will have exceeded their rights.
I am saying for the sake of mutual respect (although there may not be people without said mutual respect on both sides) that the builders should do the responsible thing and relocate to a more suitable location.
And I am saying for mutual respect that people please leave them alone and find something better to campaign for, like maybe pro-life status, because while I'm on decided on the subject, they certainly have some good arguments for it. Remember, the protester's are the one who started this mess, why should it be the persecuted that have to get us out of it? Are you somehow implying that the left is more mature then the right? More likely to step down?
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.