This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Classic Theme
Thottbot Theme
Incest should be legalized
Return to board index
Post by
Laihendi
Incest is just wrong. Loving your family should be unconditional, not sexual.
Laihendi would appreciate it if you backed up your statements with reasoning. They don't really mean anything in a serious discussion if you don't do that.
Post by
Laihendi
I have to ask, when was the last time someone was arrested for incest... beyond actual rape? I mean really, that 'recent' news article about the grandmother and her grandson finding each other, marrying and getting a surrogate for their love child, has nothing about either of them going to jail or being arrested. So yeah, while your link is interesting, it's probably not active anymore, as the cops have better things to do then go around making sure that joe bob and his sister jane lane ain't screwing in the barn.
An unjust law should be changed or removed, whether it is currently being actively enforced or not. There is always the potential for it to be actively enforced later on.
Post by
607995
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Heckler
That's true that murder being illegal won't necessarily stop someone from committing it, but murder is illegal because it harms others. Incest between consenting adults doesn't harm anyone. Incest between abusive parents and their children hurts the kids, and should remain illegal, but people who do it will continue to do so whether incest between adults is legal or not.
Legalizing incest between consenting adults wouldn't make sexual abuse any worse, and would allow people to have more freedom in pursuing their romantic interests.
As I said before, I largely agree with you. It's just that it can be difficult to define "consent" in cases like this.
Let's say a mentally challenged adult lives in a care facility, and has a sexual relationship with a Nurse. Let's say this was because the Nurse was secretly sexually abusing the handicapped person, and telling him that's what you're supposed to do when you're in love. Now let's say the public finds out about this relationship somehow -- I think society might have an issue with that, and they would probably say that because the person in mentally handicapped, he cannot rightly give consent to something like that, and therefore it was a form of rape. The same argument can be made in cases where someone was too drunk to 'give consent' and therefore what one party may have thought was a consensual act ends up being defined as rape.
A person involved in an incestuous relationship may not ever have the
choice
to consent or not to consent (in the way that would make the relationship 'proper'), simply because of the circumstances from which the relationship evolved.
If you could know with 100% certainty that the relationship was a 'normal' romantic interest, and not a warped evolution of family love, or somehow non-consensual (in the context described above), then I would agree that no one should have the right to call it illegal (and I would be willing to bet that argument would stand up in court, if it were 'provable'). The problem is, unless you're like long-lost siblings seperated at birth, I doubt you could convince people that it was
actually
consensual.
Post by
Adamsm
I have to ask, when was the last time someone was arrested for incest... beyond actual rape? I mean really, that 'recent' news article about the grandmother and her grandson finding each other, marrying and getting a surrogate for their love child, has nothing about either of them going to jail or being arrested. So yeah, while your link is interesting, it's probably not active anymore, as the cops have better things to do then go around making sure that joe bob and his sister jane lane ain't screwing in the barn.
An unjust law should be changed or removed, whether it is currently being actively enforced or not. There is always the potential for it to be actively enforced later on.
And that right there more or less kills the thread don't it? If it was going to be enforced, it would be, especially in the States post 9/11, seeing as the whole Homeland Security Act killed a lot of civil liberties; if this truly was as 'dangerous and unlawful' as your trying to paint it, people would be arrested right and left for kissing cousins.
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
I have to ask, when was the last time someone was arrested for incest... beyond actual rape?
A week ago
.
Well, that's
the Sun
...I don't think anything from that steaming pile of crap is reliable.
Post by
Adamsm
I have to ask, when was the last time someone was arrested for incest... beyond actual rape?
A week ago
.
Well, that's
the Sun
...I don't think anything from that steaming pile of crap is reliable.
Aye, there not giving a real reason why they were arrested, it almost sounds like the wife tried to make a case for the father raping his daughter for some reason.....
Post by
Laihendi
I have to ask, when was the last time someone was arrested for incest... beyond actual rape? I mean really, that 'recent' news article about the grandmother and her grandson finding each other, marrying and getting a surrogate for their love child, has nothing about either of them going to jail or being arrested. So yeah, while your link is interesting, it's probably not active anymore, as the cops have better things to do then go around making sure that joe bob and his sister jane lane ain't screwing in the barn.
An unjust law should be changed or removed, whether it is currently being actively enforced or not. There is always the potential for it to be actively enforced later on.
And that right there more or less kills the thread don't it? If it was going to be enforced, it would be, especially in the States post 9/11, seeing as the whole Homeland Security Act killed a lot of civil liberties; if this truly was as 'dangerous and unlawful' as your trying to paint it, people would be arrested right and left for kissing cousins.
There is no way of knowing what will happen in the future. An unfair law might not cause any problems now, but there is absolutely no way of knowing if it will end up being enforced at some point (however far away) in the future. If there is a law that is recognized as unfair and unjust, it should be changed or removed.
Post by
487010
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
184848
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Laihendi
That's true that murder being illegal won't necessarily stop someone from committing it, but murder is illegal because it harms others. Incest between consenting adults doesn't harm anyone. Incest between abusive parents and their children hurts the kids, and should remain illegal, but people who do it will continue to do so whether incest between adults is legal or not.
Legalizing incest between consenting adults wouldn't make sexual abuse any worse, and would allow people to have more freedom in pursuing their romantic interests.
As I said before, I largely agree with you. It's just that it can be difficult to define "consent" in cases like this.
Let's say a mentally challenged adult lives in a care facility, and has a sexual relationship with a Nurse. Let's say this was because the Nurse was secretly sexually abusing the handicapped person, and telling him that's what you're supposed to do when you're in love. Now let's say the public finds out about this relationship somehow -- I think society might have an issue with that, and they would probably say that because the person in mentally handicapped, he cannot rightly give consent to something like that, and therefore it was a form of rape. The same argument can be made in cases where someone was too drunk to 'give consent' and therefore what one party may have thought was a consensual act ends up being defined as rape.
A person involved in an incestuous relationship may not ever have the
choice
to consent or not to consent (in the way that would make the relationship 'proper'), simply because of the circumstances from which the relationship evolved.
If you could know with 100% certainty that the relationship was a 'normal' romantic interest, and not a warped evolution of family love, or somehow non-consensual (in the context described above), then I would agree that no one should have the right to call it illegal (and I would be willing to bet that argument would stand up in court, if it were 'provable'). The problem is, unless you're like long-lost siblings seperated at birth, I doubt you could convince people that it was
actually
consensual.
Laihendi understands what you're saying, but he has the belief that the government shouldn't enforce laws if it can't do it fairly, which would leave many of those grey-area situations to the responsibility of individual people.
Post by
Adamsm
Scottish Laws regarding Incest
, and some of that is really reaching, and crosses over into rape territory.
Edit:
Seems it only goes so far as well....
Post by
Laihendi
Genetic diseases and physical abnormalities, but then again maybe the inbreds can come up with some kind of their own aesthetics. Good luck with that.
And although I don't think that little kids can groom one another to have sex later on, this kind of conditioning seems a bit like treating human beings as tools for breeding purposes without their informed consent. Might go through well together with forced marriages and selling your own kids away.
If the problem is kids being created from incest, then only incest for procreation should be illegal. And the point of legalizing incest is for there to be more freedom in love, so Laihendi doesn't understand what you are saying about humans being breeding tools, and having forced marriages and stuff.
Post by
Laihendi
Scottish Laws regarding Incest
, and some of that is really reaching, and crosses over into rape territory.
Laihendi isn't saying rape should be legalized, just consensual sex between adults who are related to each other.
Post by
Heckler
For perusal, Washington State Laws on the subject:
Incest, definition and penalty.
Prohibited Marriages (1b)
Seems pretty cut and dry, I imagine the very rare case where this law is unjust would probably be grounds for a legal challenge against this law (that is, if somehow we found a perfectly legitimate incestuous relationship, and both parties were charged with this law, they could probably sue, and maybe win)... I would venture a guess that this is
so
rare, it's never happened.
Laihendi understands what you're saying, but he has the belief that the government shouldn't enforce laws if it can't do it fairly, which would leave many of those grey-area situations to the responsibility of individual people.
I could probably agree, I'm not outraged about it though -- as I stated above, anyone with a serious legal challenge to this law would probably win. If no one challenges it, then it doesn't matter.
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Laihendi
For perusal, Washington State Laws on the subject:
Incest, definition and penalty.
Prohibited Marriages (1b)
Seems pretty cut and dry, I imagine the very rare case where this law is unjust would probably be grounds for a legal challenge against this law (that is, if somehow we found a perfectly legitimate incestuous relationship, and both parties were charged with this law, they could probably sue, and maybe win)... I would venture a guess that this is
so
rare, it's never happened.
The problem is that with the way the laws are, no one could sue and win in an innocent situation involving incest. That's why Laihendi believes the laws should be changed.
Post by
Heckler
The problem is that with the way the laws are, no one could sue and win in an innocent situation involving incest. That's why Laihendi believes the laws should be changed.
I think they could, you wouldn't sue that you were wrongfully charged, you would sue that the law was wrongfully written. You might win that case.
Post by
184848
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post Reply
This topic is locked. You cannot post a reply.