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I think I know the answer, but...
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Post by
331845
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
299264
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
331845
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
299264
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
331845
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Synectics
Somewhere on the forums, Squishy has done the math.
It's
POSSIBLE
to make weapon swapping do more damage. But it is very literally a percentage point or two of difference, and that's only if everything aligns -- meaning, once you figure in latency, human error, and the RNG, it's almost impossible to get a difference that works in your favor.
Post by
331845
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
I did the math on SoV stacking, and it wasn't worth it unless you've got ~0 latency and reaction times. Not to do with ShoR swapping.
(This is all self-buffed)
Yes, and that's not even counting crits from SoR or my 1H. I'm using
Citadel Enforcer's Claymore
vs.
Bulwark of the Royal Guard
and
Rimefang's Claw
. The swing on Rimefang's Claw would hit for about 400, and SoR would hit for about 1400 = ~1800. With a 3 second swing timer, I'd only miss 1 weapon swing that hits for ~750 normal.
Consider the damage loss. (I'm going to assume that it's 1 swing vs 1 swing + ShoR, as you are.)
Rimefang's Claw isn't hitting for 400 if your Claymore is only hitting for 750. Assuming you've got about 5000AP, you're losing 909 + 5000 / 14 * 3.4 = 2123 damage on your 2h melee swing, for 304 + 4700 (less str, assuming +20str socket) / 14 * 1.7 = 875 damage. So you're losing around 1250 damage on the melee swing.
But, you also lose 37.95% melee damage from Seal of Vengeance. So the difference increases from 1250 to 1250 * 1.3795 = 1724 damage, which more than outweighs the ShoR benefit. It's even more pronounced if you're using SoC for the cleave effect.
(One consideration is that ShoR damage is unmitigated, because it's Holy. But then consider that you're giving up 3% hit rating and 1.5% crit by swapping weapons.)
I can see where this would become a problem if it starts clashing with other CD's, but if I've just shot off a CS and everything else is on CD... isn't it better than just waiting?
evonath, do you seriously have 4 seconds spare? I honestly can't believe that in your rotation, you have CS, DS, Exo, Consecration and Judgement all on cooldown at the same time.
To have 4 seconds to spare, it means you've just cast Exo/DS/Cons/Judgement/CS in that order (with 7.5secs, 4 secs, 5.5secs (glyphed), 5secs and 4secs cooldown), meaning that your rotation is ineffective (you shouldn't have more than two abilities in between CS).
I don't think this situation is plausible if you've been min/maxing your rotation, so I'd work on that bit first. The most you should have is about 1.5-2 secs free.
Post by
PKainus
I agree. 4 seconds is a bit long to say that you have free. With Crusader Strike at a lower cooldown, and Divine Storm being up more often (2 piece T10), there's not much free time. If there is, you can always help out the healers and use a mouseover instant FoL?
Post by
Quest
The damage you lose from everything while you're swinging a wet noodle at the boss is not worth it.
Post by
frmorrison
Well, with my FCFS rotation (using CLCRet, too) I'm noticing that there are times where I have a solid 4 seconds until my next ability. So, I was fooling around with the idea of swapping out my 2H for a 1H + Shield, casting SoR and swapping back.
Since weapon/libram swapping resets the swing timer, it will never be worth it to swap Seals like that. It sucks that sometimes you get 4 seconds of nothing to do, but you could cast Sacred Shield/LoH at that time.
Post by
331845
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Synectics
Thanks everyone for the feedback - I knew my math was wrong, and I knew it was a crazy idea - but hey, can't learn if you don't ask questions.
I'd sig that if I didn't already like my sig. Paladin forums have a rep for trolling, but we still get the job done on the math side. ;)
Post by
Squishalot
This is what I thought too, and I think something is wrong. I have my priority set to:
Hammer> Judge> CS> DS> Cons> Exo> Wrath in my CLCret setup panel. And I will say this until I turn blue: I have 4 seconds to spare because everything is on CD at once, since I used CS last in the prior string of attacks.
I've put together a spreadsheet at work (i.e. I can't upload it right now) that demonstrates that if you use that priority order, assuming you're hitting things on cooldown and ASAP (i.e. not waiting an extra 0.5 secs for CS to be ready, instead of using DS, for example), the bigest gap is 2.5 seconds. A gap of 4 seconds means that something's wrong with how the abilities are being used.
As I mentioned earlier, the only way you're going to get a 4 sec gap is if you use all your longer CD abilities all together before using CS. Otherwise, your longer cooldown abilities will expire in time to close the gap. One of Consecration, Judgement or DS will always be ready 2.5secs after you use CS, max.
Thanks everyone for the feedback - I knew my math was wrong, and I knew it was a crazy idea - but hey, can't learn if you don't ask questions.
I'd sig that if I didn't already like my sig. Paladin forums have a rep for trolling, but we still get the job done on the math side. ;)
For what it's worth, I like your sig too ;)
Post by
pezz
Squish, are you including Divine Plea in your spreadsheet?
Post by
Squishalot
Include it wherever you want, but it doesn't change things tremendously, I wouldn't think? I can plug it in on a 60 sec cooldown when I get back into work on Monday, but all it would do is push back an ability by one set of CS cooldowns. It'd normalise within about 15 seconds.
At the end of the day, as long as you're not using DS, Judgement and Consecration next to each other, you'll never have more than 3 secs gap, because you'll go:
0: DS
1.5: J
3: CS
4.5: Cons
7: CS
10: DS
in the worst case scenario.
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