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Saurfang and avoidance
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Post by
marklartank
this has come up a couple times, so here's a thread to discuss whether or not saurfang is an avoidance fight. my take is no - that he doesn't gain BP from his normal melee hits, only the beasts + his special abilities cause him to gain BP.
it had always been the case pre-3.3.2 that the marked player took damage and gave him BP
whether or not
the melee swing landed on the tank (i'm quite sure on that one), so avoidance certainly didn't mitigate mark damage (or BP gain from the mark). with 3.3.2, the mark damage no longer contributes to BP gain, so now we can eliminate the mark from the discussion entirely.
i went back and found a log from an alt 10-man run where we got 1 mark out - this was when disco bubbles worked and mark damage gave him BP.
here's a breakdown of his damage throughout the encounter:
(188) melee swings landed by saurfang (183 missed)
(12) melee swings landed by blood beasts
(92) boiling blood dots (32 absorbs)
(16) blood novas (1 miss - weird)
(14) tank hits with rune of blood
(15) mark of the fallen champion ticks (2 absorbs)
adding up all of his non-white damage comes to 149, so the theory of him gaining 1 BP per non-white damage would match our results of 1 mark going out.
if i had to count white swings as part of his BP gain, i would need to add 149 + 188 = 337. that would mean we got 3 marks out, which was not the case.
now, this is not to say avoidance is bad for the fight because saurfang does not hit all that hard, so stacking EH is not absolutely necessary. i just don't think avoidance has any special significance for this particular fight.
here's the
log
if anyone is interested, and i'd welcome any discussion or contradicting data because i'd like to know if i'm wrong.
Post by
Porcell
Heh, very similar to what I posted in the other thread. Unfortunately I have to head out to poker night right now, I'll check back on this when I get home.
Post by
Porcell
Good call on looking at 10 man. Here's info from our 10 man last week, where we got 1 Mark very late in the fight (only 9 damage ticks from it, uptime was only 11.2 seconds).
Blood Beasts:
--5 hits, 13 partial blocks, 15 misses
Saurfang:
--Rune of Blood, 9 hits
--Blood Nova, 6 hits
--Boiling Blood, 40 ticks
--Melee, 48 hits, 36 partial blocks, 54 misses
--Mark of the Fallen Champion, 9 hits
--Rune of Blood Debuff Cast, 6 times
Log Link
I'd have to come to the same conclusion I think. If our Mark came out 11 seconds before the fight ended, then nearly all of the above damage contributed to approximately 100 blood power. I think it was mentioned in the Tankspot video that Blood Nova gives 2 Blood Power for each person it hits. It may be reasonable to assume some of the other attacks also give multiple Blood Power (like him casting Rune of Blood, or a tank getting hit while Rune is on him).
Either way, it doesn't seem like he gains blood power from Melee hits, or else he would have thrown a mark much earlier in the fight.
DEBUNKED! Saurfang's not an avoidance fight....
Post by
303025
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
marklartank
avoidance is never a bad thing, so just gear for it however you would a normal fight. in fact, it's a good fight to use threat trinkets on.
Post by
Porcell
avoidance is never a bad thing, so just gear for it however you would a normal fight. in fact, it's a good fight to use threat trinkets on.
For a tank, it's such a nothing fight, it doesn't even matter. Even the threat is unnecessary since you are tank swapping (which always seems to bump threat), and you have DPS time being diverted to adds periodically.
So it's a "use whatever you feel like" fight. For me it will be my standard stamina trinkets probably. Lets the healers pay even less attention to me.
Post by
104767
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Zakkhar
Ok so you debunked blood power, but doesnt avoidance still reduce
the effect of this
, therefore lowering the raid healing required?
I would suggest however that this is a fight where higher DPS from a tank can really come in handy. So having a decent hit rating sure seems to help in that regard.
Having a decent hit rating is last thing i have to consider important if i want to do good dps as tank.
Post by
marklartank
Ok so you debunked blood power, but doesnt avoidance still reduce
the effect of this
, therefore lowering the raid healing required?
nope. the marked player takes damage
whether or not
the melee swing lands. i verified this myself with one of my combat logs.
Post by
303025
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Zakkhar
Oh i see.
RIP avoidance trinkets than?
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