This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Classic Theme
Thottbot Theme
Questions for a Catholic
Return to board index
Post by
147929
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Even if heading to space ended up in a debate on the morality of dead babies. It didn't result in religious debate!
most (not all) pro-lifers are driven by religious ideals.
You my friend are mistaken.
Are most people who are against murder driven by religious ideals? No.
Morality =/= Religion
Post by
147929
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I'm sorry if I came out as a #$%^ last night...I had a stressful day dealing with stressful people.
I suggest that you revise your statement.
It's more like saying there is no meaning to discussing God
's attributes
if you assume he doesn't exist. It's like arguing
whether all unicorns are white
.
That better?
Without an understanding of the context for the word 'end', I can only assume that you refer to 'end' in the common usage sense, as in, it is the final resting position/state. Which is why I failed to see the sense in your statement - how can 'will' have a state? How can 'will' be good, or bad? How can 'will' be infinitely good? 'Will' just is, it exists, it in itself can't be good or bad unless you add a moral framework!
However, now that you've clarified that by 'end', you mean 'the goal/cause of', it makes more sense. So what you're saying is:
So the ultimate goal (of will) must be (to achieve) the infinite, unqualified good.
Ok, so now we're on the same page. You're saying that our will is guiding us to want as much 'good' as it can get ('good' used in a
utility
perspective, as opposed to a
moral
perspective, right? Another potential conflict of understanding). Correct me if I'm wrong? I won't continue until I'm sure I understand you correctly.
I see where you are coming from. I do. But you need to see where I'm coming from. I've been using technical terms for 6-7 years now--If I ever knew the popular definitions, I've forgotten them by now. Taking your example, I myself wouldn't even think of using goal or purpose because to me, those mean different things. This is just as much a burden on me as it is on you.
For me purpose implies an intelligent agent outside the 'actor' (the one acting). For instance if I create a robot to make me coffee, and all it does is make me eggs: its purpose is to make coffee (I--as an external agent--apply that purpose to him), but it's not in its nature to make coffee, only to make eggs, therefore making eggs is its end.
Now that took a long sentence to explain, but for me that's an instantaneous meaning that I automatically apply to the word 'purpose'.
So just keep in mind that you using your terms is just as confusing as me using my terms.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
abortion (before the third trimester) is not comparable to murder in my eyes.
That's not the point.
Don't go sticking labels on people.
Post by
MyTie
All right, dude, what rule am I breaking by being a Christian-Muslim that makes it so I can't be a catholic?
Post by
192184
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
As a Christian you do not recognize the authority of the pope.
As a Muslim you do not believe in a Trinity.
As a Muslim you do not believe Jesus was God.
As a Christian/Muslim you do not believe Mary was Immaculately Conceived.
As a Christian/Muslim you don't believe in Purgatory.
And so on
All of those are Catholic dogmas which must be accepted as true.
Post by
MyTie
What if a Catholic person doesn't believe in purgatory, are they no longer catholic?
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
What if a Catholic person doesn't believe in purgatory, are they no longer catholic?
The Church's Magisterium exercises the authority it holds from Christ to the fullest extent when it defines dogmas, that is, when it proposes, in a form
obliging
the Christian people to an irrevocable adherence of faith, truths contained in divine Revelation or also when it proposes, in a definitive way, truths having a necessary connection with these.
So, yes.
Post by
MyTie
What if a Catholic person doesn't believe in purgatory, are they no longer catholic?
The Church's Magisterium exercises the authority it holds from Christ to the fullest extent when it defines dogmas, that is, when it proposes, in a form
obliging
the Christian people to an irrevocable adherence of faith, truths contained in divine Revelation or also when it proposes, in a definitive way, truths having a necessary connection with these.
So, yes.
What if they change their mind again, are they catholic again? So every time a catholic makes a mistake they cease to be catholic?
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
So every time a catholic makes a mistake they cease to be catholic?
Not if it was through ignorance. Willful disregard for Catholic dogma does cause you to fall into error, though, yes. You will not however be excommunicated unless you are in a public position and publicly denying the dogmas.
Post by
MyTie
So every time a catholic makes a mistake they cease to be catholic?
Not if it was through ignorance. Willful disregard for Catholic dogma does cause you to fall into error, though, yes. You will not however be excommunicated unless you are in a public position and publicly denying the dogmas.
So, I will just never become a public religious figure or study Catholicism.
I now declare myself the first Christian-Muslim-Catholic.
Edit: Now if only I could be a Buddhist too!
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
So, I will just never become a public religious figure or study Catholicism.
I now declare myself the first Christian-Muslim-Catholic.
As I said, you're still in willful error, and therefore not a Catholic. Just because you are not publicly excommunicated does not mean you are still a Catholic. Did you know that receiving or performing an abortion grants you an automatic excommunication?
The technical term which I had forgotten is
Latae sententiae.
Post by
MyTie
So, I will just never become a public religious figure or study Catholicism.
I now declare myself the first Christian-Muslim-Catholic.
As I said, you're still in willful error, and therefore not a Catholic. Just because you are not publicly excommunicated does not mean you are still a Catholic. Did you know that receiving or performing an abortion grants you an automatic excommunication?
The technical term which I had forgotten is
Latae sententiae.
If a catholic makes a willful error they CEASE to be Catholic? Really? The only Catholics are perfect Catholics?
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
If a catholic makes a willful error they CEASE to be Catholic? Really? The only Catholics are perfect Catholics?
I never said that. Let me repeat myself.
Willful disregard for
Catholic dogma
does cause you to fall into error, though, yes.
All of those are
Catholic dogmas
which must be accepted as true.
We're taking about dogma, not sin.
Post by
MyTie
Not if it was through ignorance.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Not if it was through ignorance.
Unfortunately you are no longer ignorant, because I just told you what the dogmas were.
/afk for a while
Post by
MyTie
Not if it was through ignorance.
Unfortunately you are no longer ignorant, because I just told you what the dogmas were.
/afk for a while
I read some of them, but I kind of skimmed over them. If I had to past a test, I wouldn't be very clear on them at all. Sorry, I remain ignorant. Reading something doesn't mean you know it by heart.
Post by
393249
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post Reply
This topic is locked. You cannot post a reply.