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Four Old Gods?
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Post by
mgman640
The Pantheon shattered the Old Gods' citadels and chained the four evil gods far beneath the surface of the world.
This is taken from an In-game book. So...four old gods? not 5? not 8? o.O There goes the pentagram theory...
Discuss please...(I could've sworn there were more...)
Post by
Adamsm
One is in Darkshore, we've all seen it; the giant sword sticking out of the shell; possible dead, more then likely sealed away.
One in Silithus : C'thun
One in Northrend : Yogg - Saron
2 more out there somewhere, but no, there were only ever 5 Old gods on Azeroth.
Post by
mgman640
Actually from the book that i read it says only 1 other left, and I did know about those 3 from browsing these forums =P I've just seen many people speculating 5-8...I guess this is confirmation there's only 4?
Post by
Adamsm
No, the book is talking about chaining the four other gods that they didn't "kill". There were 5 total, so there are still 2 more out there slithering around.
Post by
Skreeran
The Warcraft 3 manual says 5, we're really not sure how many there are. It's quite possible that they are beyond our understanding, even in their number.
That would be so freaking awesome.
Post by
374045
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
doublediamond410
The Master's Glaive (the site in Darkshore) has never been confirmed as the spot of an Old God, as far as I know.
The
WoWWiki page
does make mention of the Twilight cultists normally tied to Old God lore and Onu's reference to where an "old lord of the earth" fell.
However, there are Twilight cultists in Blackfathom Deeps, where the closest tie is a pet, not an actual god, and it might be reasonable enough that the creature the skull belonged to was in actuality a
lieutenant
of the Old Gods rather than an Old God itself. (Though just as likely Blizzard's team contradicted itself. Wouldn't be the first time.)
Post by
Morec0
I think there's only one with multiple personalities. And all the one's we've faced have been extentions of that one.
So, in essence, there are five, but those 5 are one.
This idea is taken from the fact that the Old Gods span continents, and the parts we kill are only little peices.
Post by
doublediamond410
That would be interesting... finding out an Old God burrowed into the core of the planet and if it dies, the world dies. Perhaps a boss fight where you have to survive the fight and weaken it, but restrain yourself from killing it completely or lose in the end anyway.
(Although there's enough references to Old God
s
in a plural sense that I don't see it happening.)
Post by
Adamsm
Well you can't kill the old gods anyways, you destroy the planet if you do. That's why the old gods sealed them away in the first place, and we never actually kill them, we just destroy the most important parts.
Post by
Skreeran
(Although there's enough references to Old God
s
in a plural sense that I don't see it happening.)Again, we C
a
Nn
o
T
C
Om
Pre
h
END
THe
i
R
POWER
.
They could certainly be beyond our comprehension. It is one old god. It is many old gods. It is the All-in-One and the One-in-All of limitless being and self — not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence's whole unbounded sweep — the last, utter sweep which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike.
Post by
Blackboy0
War of the Ancients says there are 3, and they are explicitly called "The Three" by Krasus. Apparently C'Thun was presumed dead at that time, but that still means there were 4, so either the War of the Ancients book is wrong (which I doubt, because Chris Metzan read them over before being published) or we have all been thinking wrong.
So if we are listening to the War of the Ancients:
Yogg-Saron
Old God in Tirisfal Grove
Old God under Nazjatar
You may say the third one is false, but in the book a tentacle came out of the Well of Eternity and grabbed Malfurion, wanting to devour him and take the Demon Soul from him. When the Sundering was complete, the Well crashed in and the Old God was forced back into his prison, which was most likely under the Well, near Nazjatar.
If we are listening to WoWWiki and the lore of WoW:
Yogg-Saron
C'Thun
Old God in Trisifal Grove
Old God under Nazjatar
Old God nullified in Darkshore
The Old God in Darkshore
cannot
be dead. I know Blizzard, and they would
not
give up one of their precious 5 Old Gods for a bit of scenery and a hardly-done questline. The carcass in Darkshore could very well be the Old God corrupting and otherwise behind the Nightmare in the Emerald Dream.
Post by
Adamsm
Tentacle came out the portal, not the Well itself. But yeah the rest of the stuff is perfect Black, and I agree whole hardly, that's why there are cultist in Black Fathom, they're able to connect with the damaged old god there and listen to it.
Post by
Blackboy0
Tentacle came out the portal, not the Well itself. But yeah the rest of the stuff is perfect Black, and I agree whole hardly, that's why there are cultist in Black Fathom, they're able to connect with the damaged old god there and listen to it.
Hmm... Maybe Aku'mai was the pet of the nullified Old God, and when it died (or thought to have died), Aku'mai fled?
Post by
Adamsm
Possible, or that chamber where we fight him is the closest spot near the Master's Glaive underground.
Post by
ArgentSun
They could certainly be beyond their comprehension. It is one old god. It is many old gods. It is the All-in-One and the One-in-All of limitless being and self — not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence's whole unbounded sweep — the last, utter sweep which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike.
Maybe an example will clarify what you are saying:
Here's how I think about beings beyond our comprehension. Imagine we all live in a two-dimensional world. Imagine a
huge
sheet of paper. That's our world. Now, imagine a human walks by this pretty 2D world and punches holes through it with his fingers. From a two-dimensional perspective, all we can see are the cross-sections of the fingers. However from a 3D perspective, you can see the fingers extending into the third dimension. But most importantly - in our 2D world we see 5 different "entities" - the cross-sections of the fingers. But in the 3D world, we can easily see that those 5 entities are actually part of one whole - a hand.
Well, thinking about
the
Old God,
in this context
, is not that much different. Yogg-Saron, C'thun and co. are just three-dimensional manifestations of something larger, way beyond our comprehension. Something so immense, to which our entire universe is like a sheet of paper to us. I think it makes sense this way.
Now, I am not saying I support this theory. It sounds too crazy even for Blizzard, and it's way beyond what even an MMO of the scale of WoW needs. As for the number of Old Gods... no clue. I support the idea of five of them, but that's purely because I am used to think about them this way. If Krasus refers to them as "three", this might be because both the one dead in Darkshore (presumably) and C'thun were unknown to him. Correct me if I am wrong (this period of the Azerothian history is a little vague for me), but weren't the dragons created by the Titans
after
the latter's war with the Old Gods? This would mean that when Krasus was "born" (he might have been just created, for all we know), there were only three Old Gods alive. Imprisoned, but alive. I'd assume the Titans gave the Dragonflights the knowledge about those powerful foes, and if the Titans truly believed that two of the five were dead, it is only normal that they would tell the Dragons that there are only three (left).
By the time of modern Azeroth, C'thun's re-appearance would be known to most of the people on the planet, hence why the book refers to them as "four" (Krasus' three + C'thun)...
INTERMISSION
: I actually just checked Wowhead's page on
The Old Gods and the Ordering of Azeroth
. Here's what you can find on Page #5:
The Pantheon shattered the Old Gods' citadels and chained the
five
evil gods far beneath the surface of the world
. Without the Old Gods' power to keep their raging spirits bound to the physical world, the elementals were banished to an abyssal plane, where they would contend with one another for all eternity. With the elementals' departure, nature calmed, and the world settled into a peaceful harmony. The Titans saw that the threat was contained and set to work.
So yea... Check your sources, as my History teacher always said.
WoWWiki
does say "four" in its quote. But I trust our DB more than their freewrite.
Post by
Adamsm
Yeah the Dragon's were given guardian ship after the Ordering, so C'thun was cast into the sands of what would be Silithus, The creature in Darkshore was sworded and thought to be dead, leaving the other three imprisoned. Actually that kinda gives credence to the idea that it's nearly impossible to kill the Old God, after all the leader of the Titan's kicked C'thun's bulbous behind into the sands and left thinking he was dead, then he creates the Quarj race and plots and plans for the War of the Shifting Sands.
Post by
Blackboy0
Now, I am not saying I support this theory. It sounds too crazy even for Blizzard, and it's way beyond what even an MMO of the scale of WoW needs. As for the number of Old Gods... no clue. I support the idea of five of them, but that's purely because I am used to think about them this way. If Krasus refers to them as "three", this might be because both the one dead in Darkshore (presumably) and C'thun were unknown to him. Correct me if I am wrong (this period of the Azerothian history is a little vague for me), but weren't the dragons created by the Titans after the latter's war with the Old Gods? This would mean that when Krasus was "born" (he might have been just created, for all we know), there were only three Old Gods alive. Imprisoned, but alive. I'd assume the Titans gave the Dragonflights the knowledge about those powerful foes, and if the Titans truly believed that two of the five were dead, it is only normal that they would tell the Dragons that there are only three (left).
Ahh yes, forgot about him when I was posting that... The dragons were created
after
the Old Gods were imprisoned (and the one in Darkshore nullified/defeated), and C'Thun was hidden. So he very much could have just been ignoramus to those two, as the Three (Yogg-Saron, Nazjatar, and Tirisfal Grove) were the only
known
Old Gods left (though I'm guessing they didn't know their names or where they were kept)
And I agree with Argent, I think that there are
5
Old Gods and they are:
C'Thun
Yogg-Saron
Tirisfal Grove (Overwhelming evidence)
Darkshore (Nullified, but either influencing or controlling the Nightmare)
Nazjatar (Controlling/influencing Azshara and the Naga)
So yah... Those are the 5 Old Gods that i believe have the most evidence.
Post by
Skreeran
Awesome example, Argent. ;)
I refuse to believe that the Old Gods are just mundane creatures of Azeroth.
As an avid Lovecraft fan, I say that they are beyond our tiny mortal comprehesion.
Post by
Blackboy0
Awesome example, Argent. ;)
I refuse to believe that the Old Gods are just mundane creatures of Azeroth.
As an avid Lovecraft fan, I say that they are beyond our tiny mortal comprehesion.
Well, they managed to disrupt Time, make Nozdormu throw back 3 adventurers, corrupted Neltharion enough to make the
Dragon
Demon Soul, helped open a portal up to Sargeras, and are currently plotting to use the Naga and Azshara against Azeroth.
EDIT:
They are also (probably) behind the Nightmare that is taking over the Emerald Dream, and are close to finally being rid of the cause of their downfall: Malfurion Stormrage.
They've got skills. That's all I can say.
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