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0/53/18 vs. 57/3/11
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Post by
349103
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Post by
311746
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
349103
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Post by
365547
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Post by
Shaxe
I thought that Arcane mages are suppose to go OOM... since our DPS kinda scales with mana.
First of all, are you even hit capped? Do you have all that it takes to reach 17% spell hit with 168 hit rating? 6% from talents, 3% from Balance druid or Shadow priest with 1% more from Draeneis. Also, the most optimal way to use a MBAM is with 3 stacks of AB debuffs.
I find good mana management during the encounter is a good way to keep me going. What I do is whenever I start an encounter is to pop the first mana gem charge whenever I have 6-7k mana to fill up, to keep the cooldown running as soon as possible. After that, my goal is to go OOM in 1 minute, that means blowing CDs (MI, IV, AP, PoM, trinkets you name it). When I'm OOMed after 1 minute from using mana gem, I find an appropriate moment to use Evocation. From there on I'll use my mana gem and Evocation whenever it's up, allowing me to restore mana every 1 minute. My rotation is go aggresive (AB AB AB ABarr) at start unless I'm going OOM, then I switch to a less aggresive rotation (AB AB ABarr) since I'm still on a trial and error stage with my mage. If you are aiming to beat an enrage timer and need to pump out more damage but you're OOMed, don't hesitate to pop a mana potion, I personally never raid without those. It's also a good tip to know when your Shaman is going to pop Heroism/Bloodlust so you can save your mana for it for some mad bursts.
I'm a
semi heroic geared mage
(just dinged last Thursday) with a cookie cutter 57/3/11 and I got into a 25 naxx pug last weekend (no luck with loot :/) and I believe I did 4200 DPS on Patchwerk although I haven't really got used to mana management yet but yeh it takes time. Always, always though, know the encounter beforehand so you can plan when to do an Evocation and know when to be more aggressive on DPS.
Post by
Achloryn
my mage currently has 1690 spell power, 10.3 crit, and 168 hit as arcane spec.
He does maybe... 2.4k dps unbuffed. If he goes full out on a fight like patchwerk with buffs he can do like 3.4k, then drops significantly back into the 2200 range. He goes OOM, A LOT. He has glyph of mana gem and I evocation and use them every time off cooldown. Sometimes I oom and have to wait like 15 seconds to get mana because both evocation and mana gem are on cooldown. Those seconds could be cruical because a boss might be getting close to enrage timer and we need DPS.
So really, should I stick with arcane or will I have better results as fire? My fresh 80 warlock, who has like... 90 hit and is destro can out DPS my mage (he has 2 pieces of t7.5, t7 legs, but then the rest is greens or level 70 blue gear).
if you're doing PvE with glyph of mana gem and glyph of evocation, you're gimping your dps.
Glyph of Arcane Blast
Single highest DPS arcane glyph.. (That's 3% per stack)
Glyph of Arcane Missiles
2nd highest DPS arcane glyph. You'll thank me when you see your missile barrage critting for 9k per tick on a 25m Thaddius.
Glyph of Molten Armor
ALL pve mage specs make use of this. Even arcane, which isn't as crit reliant, makes great use of the dps for this.
All that having been said, arcane is a mana heavy spec.. no two ways about it. you WILL go oom, and you WILL have to pop your cooldowns, the trick is to hit them at the right times. it's tricky and takes a lot of work to get down properly. Try to wait a full minute between using mana gem and evocation. It might be a benefit to you to just wait until your mana gets down 5-6k and then pop your mana gem. If you wait till your mana gem is half way off CD before you evocate, you should be alright.. It would also be a benefit to you to start your evocation in the last second or two of your icy veins, to make the cast time quicker. (Even if IV ends before evocation does, evo still gets the benefit of the haste for the whole channeling time)
Post by
321419
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Post by
Shaxe
I tried using Invisibility in raids (heroic Thaddius during miniboss phase) and it didn't work.
Post by
Achloryn
I tried using Invisibility in raids (heroic Thaddius during miniboss phase) and it didn't work.
why would you pop invisibility? that's something to use only when you need to dump aggro.. and of course it didn't work, cause you take aoe damage during the mini-boss part of thaddius.
Post by
Shaxe
I tried using Invisibility in raids (heroic Thaddius during miniboss phase) and it didn't work.
why would you pop invisibility? that's something to use only when you need to dump aggro.. and of course it didn't work, cause you take aoe damage during the mini-boss part of thaddius.
Nope I don't think I took damage because the 3 second fade didn't get disrupted, and the reason for popping Invisibility was to see if I could get out of combat to drink or get the potion cooldown moving like what Giez suggested to the OP.
Post by
Achloryn
I tried using Invisibility in raids (heroic Thaddius during miniboss phase) and it didn't work.
why would you pop invisibility? that's something to use only when you need to dump aggro.. and of course it didn't work, cause you take aoe damage during the mini-boss part of thaddius.
Nope I don't think I took damage because the 3 second fade didn't get disrupted, and the reason for popping Invisibility was to see if I could get out of combat to drink or get the potion cooldown moving like what Giez suggested to the OP.
yeah, i didn't read the previous post you said before i asked that.. lol..sorry it's been one of those days.. /shakes head.
Post by
349103
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Post by
sabaw
You dont need glyph of mana gem as arcane
Ach already put out what 3 glyphs you should be using as arcane.
If youre having mana problems then youre either doing the rotation wrong, not switching to the right rotation at the right times, or not using your CDs and/or abilities to the full extent. (Something im guilty of and still learning).
The challenge of arcane is its own strength: the ability to control your mana bar. Going all out (AB all the way) gives you big dps, but it also drains your mana fastest. So is it a bad thing to do? No, not always. Boss at 10% and you have 75%+ mana left? Go pop IV trinkets etc and arcane blast all the way (with mbarr thrown in there). On the other had if the boss is at 50% and you have 20% mana left, use your evocate or switch to a more efficient rotation (like 2xAB Abarr or AB Abarr).
Managing your mana gem and evocation cooldown is part of the things youll have to do. Use your gem as soon as you can, so its put on cooldown as soon as possible. As noted earlier, try to space it from your evocate so you have means to recover your mana every min or so.
Post by
Eldmor
The only reason you should use Arcane Barrage in PvE is if you're moving. This is due to its poor spell power coefficient, which also gimps your stacks of AB. Patch 3.0.9 killed Arcane Barrage as a PvE spell.
Arcane PvE: ABx3, AM. Reduce amount of AB for mana efficiency.
Even if missiles don't proc, a normal speed AM is still a better use of AB stacks.
Post by
87278
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Post by
danroe
Bolstering your hitcap => Pro DPS.
Post by
Darkwraith01
my mage currently has 1690 spell power, 10.3 crit, and 168 hit as arcane spec.
With those stats I wouldn't go FFB or FB. You crit is terrible, your hit is low (don't even think about FB/TTW spec until you have 368 hit). You need at least 2x more crit rating what you've got to even consider taking a look into FFB or FB.
What about haste? If you are ooming all the time, either you have very low mana, or too much haste.
Like other people have written in this thread, arcane is all about mana management. If you see you are at about 40% of your mana pool, pop a mana gem. Next, when you get to about 20%, evocate (you should have the talents to reduce the cd on your evocate to 2 minutes). Rinse and repeat.
Post by
349103
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Post by
Darkwraith01
You still need crit for FFB or FB/TTW.
Think like this: to get the pyroblast you need for the real damage of those specs, you need 2 crits in a row. If your chance to crit is roughly 11%, do the math.... the result will be horrible.
As for arcane, if you have mana and decent haste, it´s much easier to get your procs: missile barrage has a 20% chance to proc, PERIOD. On top of that, you can get the Arcane Missile glyph that will give you 25% crit chance for your missiles.
So, if you have haste and mana, arcane will be much better for you, untill you can get better gear to get your crit chance to about 30%.
Post by
Achloryn
You still need crit for FFB or FB/TTW.
Think like this: to get the pyroblast you need for the real damage of those specs, you need 2 crits in a row. If your chance to crit is roughly 11%, do the math.... the result will be horrible.
As for arcane, if you have mana and decent haste, it´s much easier to get your procs: missile barrage has a 20% chance to proc, PERIOD. On top of that, you can get the Arcane Missile glyph that will give you 25% crit chance for your missiles.
So, if you have haste and mana, arcane will be much better for you, untill you can get better gear to get your crit chance to about 30%.
keep in mind that one's crit chance as arcane is not going to be the same as one's crit chance as a deep fire spec because of world in flames and critical mass and such.
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