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0/13/58 Quick question
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Post by
308343
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Post by
235075
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Post by
asakawa
i strongly disagree.
i'd want
way
more utility that the lacklustre shadowfury to give up an actual damage increase like pyroclasm.
cover your DPS increasing talents first,
then
you can spend extra points on frippery like shadowfury.
Post by
irharry
Shadowfury is just not worth it. Its one of those gimmick spells that looks great on paper, is fun to use, but neither practical nor efficient. The only fight in ulduaur where you would use this is IC hard mode - and a mage with imp. blizzard can slow the adds far better than shadowfury can.
Post by
Fingulfin
Shadowfury is just not worth it. Its one of those gimmick spells that looks great on paper, is fun to use, but neither practical nor efficient. The only fight in ulduaur where you would use this is IC hard mode - and a mage with imp. blizzard can slow the adds far better than shadowfury can.
Lies. Shadowfury is nearly indispensable for Freya hard mode, its helpful for IC medium mode, its great for interrupts for Thorim (hard or normal) and has its uses on Trash.
Next time I have some extra money, I'm getting rid of Pyroclasm altogether, and picking up Suppression and Shadowfury. Pyro doesn't proc nearly enough to be worth it, and the damage bonus is lackluster compared to dropping my +hit gear for better stuff.
Post by
asakawa
if you want to switch around your spec then best of luck but shadowfury is a foolish reason to do it.
your conflag should be critting well over 50% of the time so (with conflag's cooldown) that means you should see pyro up more than half the time. basically pyro represents (not large but) serious percentage increase to damage.
if you want shadowfury and you want suppression then do yourself a favour and go 3/13/55.
Post by
Modibybob
Shadowfury is worth it at the expense of 1 pyro point. Although some claim it to be "lackluster", it is still work having its utility for certain situations. An AOE stun, even that short, could potentially save a group from an overpull, also if you're doing some pvp on the side, etc.
From an elitist, pure DPS PoV, I would disagree with myself...
But I understand that certain abilities are worth getting for their utility at the sacrifice of trivial DPS.
Post by
irharry
Shadowfury is just not worth it. Its one of those gimmick spells that looks great on paper, is fun to use, but neither practical nor efficient. The only fight in ulduaur where you would use this is IC hard mode - and a mage with imp. blizzard can slow the adds far better than shadowfury can.
Lies. Shadowfury is nearly indispensable for Freya hard mode, its helpful for IC medium mode, its great for interrupts for Thorim (hard or normal) and has its uses on Trash.
Next time I have some extra money, I'm getting rid of Pyroclasm altogether, and picking up Suppression and Shadowfury. Pyro doesn't proc nearly enough to be worth it, and the damage bonus is lackluster compared to dropping my +hit gear for better stuff.
I accept the logic in your argument, I just don't agree (and yes, i did say hard mode IC where I should have said medium - my bad). I've never needed to interrupt on thorim - if a rogue/dk isn't capable of doing it they're not doing their job. I haven't done freya hard mode myself, so I can't comment too much on that, but none of the strats I've read or watched seem to require it.
Post by
Fingulfin
None of them "require" it, but in 25 man it makes life soooooo much easier.
Point is, Shadowfury is a VERY situational tool... However it is a very powerful tool in those situations. Pyroclasm is lackluster for a 3 point talent, and in my opinion those points would be better off spent in Suppression or Shadowfury.
If your guild is still on Naxx or normal modes and you need every ounce of DPS you can get, then by all means pick up Pyroclasm... However if you are as geared as you can be short of lucky drops and high DKP bids, it can be worth it just to leave Pyroclasm out of the picture altogether. I'm currently at the point in
my gear
that I no longer worry about my DPS (I have recount disabled); what matters is surviving the fight at hand.
Post by
308343
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
fin's using some very fuzzy logic here.
1 talent point for 1% damage increase is the balance that blizzard aims for. this is what pyro gives. it's a solid dps talent.
meanwhile, warlocks aren't ever required to bring this utility. other classes do it and they do it better than us. let them. if your guild lacks these classes and has asked you to fill a role that would be better suited to another class then fair enough but this makes for very bad general advice.
however, the worst of the fuzzy logic is 'you don't need to maximise dps on progression content'. that's exactly where you DO need to maximise every ounce of your potential output. to give the raid the best chance of success you need to be doing as much damage as you feasibly can be doing only ever dropping serious dps increasing talents in dire need.
if you've really just taken it on yourself to lower your output for a silly AoE stun then i can't imagine your raid leader thanking you for it.
Post by
Kangi
Why in the world would you lower your dps for a utility spell that is inferior to other classes' abilities?
If you want Shadowfury, go 3/13/55.
Post by
131684
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Fingulfin
Shadowfury is worth it at the expense of 1 pyro point. Although some claim it to be "lackluster", it is still work having its utility for certain situations. An AOE stun, even that short, could potentially save a group from an overpull, also if you're doing some pvp on the side, etc.
If you are planning to do some PvP on the side, then invest in the duel spec system. Don't alter your DPS spec to meet your PvP needs.
The funny thing is, my PvP and PvE Destro specs only vary by about 5 points...
Post by
134687
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Pyrathus
Finqulfin, I'm going to have to disagree with you, Shadowfury is a situational AoE, it has its uses from time to time, but to give up useful consistent dps increasing talents for a situational AoE? Not worth it in my opinion.
For another thing, other classes have much better AoE attacks anyways, so wasting a talent point in Shadowfury isn't a very good idea to me.
Post by
Porcell
Pyro doesn't proc nearly enough to be worth it, and the damage bonus is lackluster compared to dropping my +hit gear for better stuff.
I can't speak to your gear changes, but some numbers from our Destro Lock on a few bosses, courtousy of WMO:
Ignus: 13 Pyro procs for 2:10 uptime, 64% uptime over the 3:23 it took to kill him. ~5500 DPS for that fight.
Patchwerk: 10 Pyro procs for 1:36 uptime, 66% uptime over 2:25 it took to kill him. ~7000 DPS for that fight
So assuming a 65% uptime of a 6% damage buff, that's an average 4% damage increase from taking 3 points in the talent. 1 point would be around 1.3% increase, 2 is 2.6, and 3 points is ~4%.
A 4% overall damage increase is... well, it's pretty huge. Compare that to other talents. Destro locks have about 50% of their damage coming from Incinerate. With the current Brimstone talent they are getting 3/6/9/12/15, which is a 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5% damage increase. That will be dropping to ~1% damage increase per talent point in the next patch.
I think Blizzard has said their general guildline is that talents should increase damage output by ~1% per point (I remember seeing this mentioned a lot in combination with "Titan's Grip" because it gave something like +25% damage output for 1 point). Pyro seems to shape up about the same; a bit more than 1% increased damage per point spent. Definitely a keeper talent.
Post by
Fingulfin
My guild isn't wiping to Ignis or Patch, we are wiping on Freya(+3) because of lack of control and survivability. 2 points out of Pyro = Soul Link and Shadowfury...
On a Min-Max fight like Hodir Hard, Pyro would be more useful... But once again, we are not having trouble on DPS fights.
(Captcha = xmmxm)
Post by
asakawa
and this is the important thing about all this.
if that's something you need to do to overcome your guild's personal shortcomings then that's fine. you clearly have a good enough grasp on warlock mechanics to make a decision like that for yourself but all this started because it was suggested that dropping pyro was a good idea for everyone and that's just not true.
aside from all of that i don't see why you don't take the obvious spec that gives everything you want (suppression and shadowfury) without losing the excellent pyro damage. i don't think soul leech is doing as much on those tough fights as you think it is and improved soul leech can surely be dropped.
basically if you need survivability and control over damage then take a PvP spec but don't go around suggesting that it's a good spec for PvE, that's just misleading.
Post by
261869
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